have you started to learn chinese?

Look. The influence of china is wider and wider. Their economic is hot. There are lots of job chances. Numbers of chinese students come here.
so HAVE you ever THOUGHT of learning chinese?

In much of the USA, Spanish is far more common than Chinese. Not to mention, much easier to learn.

Like I said in another thread, I'm not going to learn some bastard language just to get a job. I'm not an international businessman and I'm not going to act like one.

China, its language, its culture, and its salemen - namely you - can kiss my white anglo-saxon arse.

My first real attempt to learn about Chinese was back in 1976 and 77 from an acupuncture doctor in my neighborhood, originally from Hong Kong, who spoke Cantonese (Dr.Lai). I never intended to be anything close to a fluent Chinese speaker. I simply wanted to know more about the language. Dr. Lai was very informative that way. He even showed me how to write foreign and American names in Chinese with Steve, Mary, Eisenhower, Richard Nixon, Brezhnev and Einstein becoming Si-Tai-Fu, Ma-Lei, Ai-Sum-Ho-Wi, Lei Cha Nei Huk Shun, Be-Ji-Ne-Fu and Ngoi-Un-Si-Tun. Each syllable had its own Chinese character.

In my opinion, it's worth it for everyone to know something about Chinese. Speaking it fluently, however, is a different proposition. I think it's true what they say about no Westerner ever really learning to speak Chinese. I saw an elderly University of Washington professor trying to converse with two Chinese men in Mandarin about twenty years ago. While I admired his efforts, it was obvious that the two Chinese men were tense and straining a little bit to understand him.

David Winter:
"China, its language, its culture, and its salemen - namely you - can kiss my white anglo-saxon arse."
As we know , when chinese men were enjoying building their empire with their Yellow Emperor arses, there was no single white anglo-saxon ass,including you and your ancestors,existing in the world. LOL:)

David Winters is nothing but a cheap racist bastard.

>> I think it's true what they say about no Westerner ever really learning to speak Chinese. <<

I've been thinking of learning Chinese, but due to this I'm not entirely sure yet. Does anyone know about the difficult of Chinese in comparison to Japanese?

euphi:
" Does anyone know about the difficult of Chinese in comparison to Japanese?"
Comparing to Japanese, Chinese is much easier grammatically, but much harder in pronuciation because of the four intonations.

I've learnt some chinese few months ago.. and I'll continue learning in the summer..

I read once that the Chinese can distinguish between 11 different sounds which are all sound like "SH" to Westerners. Is it true?

1) I know many Westerners who are comfortably fluent in Chinese, some with Northern Chinese accents ( like me) and some who learned in Taiwan with Taiwanese accents. You are welcome to listen to me in Chinese for 20 minutes at the following URLs. The first is for outside China and the second is for inside China.

http://audio.thelinguist.com/media/att.wmv
http://www.thelinguist.cn/media/att.wmv

2) Chinese is difficult because of the characters and the tones. Neither is an insurmountable problem. As with all language learning it is a matter of interest and commitment. I enjoyed it and persevered. The feeling of being able to read and discuss in a language that at first seems to different, but once conquered is not so different. Communication is communication. The Chinese are 20+% of the world with a long history and fascinating culture. I recommend the study of Chinese. It does take commitment and an opportunity to use it. It is not for everyone.

3) Japanese is easier because there are no tones and there is a phonetic script as well as characters. Grammar in both languages is quite easy. Make sure you avoid any theories of the structure and just learn to imitate how things are expressed.

4) Strictly speaking there are only two "sh" sounds in Chinese. In Chinese Romanization or Pin Yin, one is written as "sh" and is just like the English "sh" in "show". The other is written "x". If you say the word "ancient" you may just notice that the "sh" sound is lighter than in the word "show". If you make the "sh" sound just a little lighter still you will hit the Chinese "x" sound.

5) David Winters deserves whatever dirt is thrown in his direction. I suspect he enjoys it and provokes it on purpose.

6) Rcruit appears to represent those Chinese with their own Chinese view that they somehow are "older" than other people. He tells us that the Yellow Emperor created the Chinese empire. In fact the Yellow Emperor is merely a figure of legend like so many similar figures in the national mythology around the world. The Xi Xia or original creators of Chinese civilization were only one tribe amongst many and post date the development of writing and civilization in Western Asia and Egypt.

The flowering of the Chinese bronze age is roughly contemporary with the development of the Minoan Civilization in Crete. The dominant figures of Chinese thought were contemporary with the dominant figures of Greek philosophy.

The creation of the Chinese Empire as we know it today was the result of the continuous southward expansion of the Han Chinese which gained force after the first unification of China around the same time as the creation of the Roman Empire. China did not permanently split up into separate kingdoms like the Roman Empire thanks to the unifying power of the Chinese writing system and the overwhelming prestige of its culture. The barbarians who regularly conquered and subjugated northern China over the last 2000 years were not as numerous and did not have the staying power of the Celtic and then Germanic barbarians who broke up the Roman Empire.

As to how long different peoples ancestral "arses" have been around this planet, we all originate from the same small group of wandering hunters and gatherers. All of our ancestors have been around for the same length of time, and that is long before there was an England or a China.

Well put Steve K. Though I do have to pull you up on one tiny oversight. There are tones in Japanese: only two and not so crucial to making yourself understood but they do exist. Tone distinguishes such pairs as "chopsticks" & "bridge", "salmon" & "sake" (the drink), "rain" and "sweets", etc.

David Winter may have a disagreable way of putting his point but the point itself (one of them anyway) is valid. If you're not an international businessman, why choose Chinese over any other language? For me learning Chinese would not really help me in my line of work. There is another language that would though.

What language to learn ... and even whether to learn any is really up to the individual. At the moment English is the most important international language and has been for several decades. However, there are many many people who get by quite happily enough without knowing a word of English.

Great job Steve K. You seem to be more chinese than those real ones about their culture.

I speak Japanese fluently and sound almost native speaker-like to Japanese. I never bother with any tones not for bridge and chopsticks nor any other homonym pairs. I am understood from the context. In my view there are no tones in Japanese.

http://www.mwscomp.com/sounds/mp3/chinese.mp3