I can assure you that the British variety of English is much more popular in Spain than the American one, regardless of age. The main reasons would be:
1.) Tens of thousands of young Spaniards travel to Britain to attend summer courses, Erasmus programmes or even work and live there for a while (1-2 years) to improve their English. If it isn't the London area it's Dublin where they are mainly taught RP or something as close as can be. I have the feeling it's pretty much the same for young Italians since you'll find them all over the place in London and pretty much the same with the French. The accomodation and restaurant industry is full of them. In Romance language countries, at least, you mainly go to Great Britain to learn your English.
2.) Hundreds of thousands of Brits (mainly English) have a home in sunny Spain, specially along the Mediterranean coast.
3.) Most English Language Schools in Spain are run by Brits. They've been known to hire occasional Australians and New Zealanders but they're not be known to hire Americans. Don't ask me why but it's a fact. I have several friends in the business.
4.) The only American English language course I've known was one run by Utah Mormons. Tuition was free but it had very little success. You can imagine why.
5.) Fewer Spaniards travel to the US although I've known a few. Some of them tend to apologise for their American accent and would never apply for a job a an English run language school. I'm just describing what happens since I find American accents to be quite nice.
I would like to be able to edit my messages.
accommodation
they've not been known...
apply for a job in an English...
Interestingly, when I come to think of it, most English language schools are run by Brits in Hungary, too, but still, American English seems to be more popular here (and in some other East European countries as well). I guess it is because American cultural influence is more pervasive in this part of Europe. It is enough to compare the amount of American films as opposed to British ones, let alone those from France, Spain or Italy, which are even lower in number. Ironically, the USA seems to be "closer" culturally to Eastern Europe than is Britain.
Just my two cents about Italy (because you mentioned it Jordi):
"I have the feeling it's pretty much the same for young Italians "
We had quite a few Italians learning English at my college (in the US). I of course hung around them because I was learning Italian. I've heard them say that they find American English much more natural for an Italian - a big reason they said was because we pronounced our "r's".
One girl, Georgia, had her brother visit and he actually spoke English quite well. He said he learned in high school (mandatory) and through some classes at his present University, but it was definietly an American accent he spoke with.
I've also been to Italy and the people I met there that spoke English always spoke with an American (or at least rhotic best I could tell at times) accent. And I can't tell you how many American songs on the radio I heard over there. My sister-in-law (Italian, age 19) is obsessed with the O.C. American culture really seems to permeate over there.
Perhaps what you say about Spain is true and I'm sure it's true for some Italians as well, but I think the American variety of English is also very popular with young Italians.
To throw in my two cents with the original topic, I tend to follow the British pattern consequently, yet I use "skedyool" rather than "shedyool" -I actually have not realised so far that there are two different ways of pronouncing this word. I guess words like "scheme" had something to do with this.
You mean "had not realised" :) Wow, Easterner. I think pig may fly today, so rare is it that I catch you in a mistake. I catch native English speakers in mistakes more often than you. Really, if you had never mentioned it, I'd have thought you were a native English speaker.
<<You mean "had not realised" :) Wow, Easterner. I think pig may fly today, so rare is it that I catch you in a mistake. I catch native English speakers in mistakes more often than you. Really, if you had never mentioned it, I'd have thought you were a native English speaker. >>
But many natives say "have" instead of "had" quite often...
Really? To me using "have" in place of "had" implies that he still doesn't realize that there are two different ways of pronouncing "schedule". This seems wrong to me as he just commented on the difference and it's obvious that he must know about the difference to comment on it. The "so far" further perplexes me because it supports the sentences implication that he still doesn't know it even though he's commenting on it.
I think his whole post is a little confusing. But I guess you're right...
Easterner's sentence is not correct, and I doubt a native speaker of a English would make a mistake like that. That's not the only sentence with errors though...
"To throw in my two cents with the original topic"
It should be "about" instead of "with".
"I tend to follow the British pattern consequently"
I don't get this. Consequently of what? I think they meant to use another word here.
"I guess words like "scheme" had something to do with this."
I would use "have" instead of "had". The reason's that he's still pronouncing "schedule" the American way, or at least one can assume so since he hasn't said otherwise. Because of that, "scheme" still _has_ something to do with it.
BTW, Easterner, I just pointed out these mistakes so that no one thinks those sentences are proper English and starts using them. I'm not trying to offend you or anything.
Tiffany,
You raise a very interesting question. How do strongly or moderately accented foreigners or non-native English speakers speak English as a second language? I would say they speak English with an Italian, Spanish, French or Hungarian accent, depending on where they come from.
This said, you will, of course, be able to realise if they've had more contact with the British or American variety. You might even get a surprise and hear a few with an Australian, New Zealand or South African accent. I, myself, surprise quite a lot of people because of my Australian accent (I grew up down under), but then I'm taken more for a native speaker, having learnt the language as a child.
How do Italians (living in Italy and having learnt English as a second language) pronounce words like "can't" and "France"? In some ways Southern English is closer to Italian than General American. Vowels tend to be closer and "neater" in RP at least.
Do they say lift or elevator (and all the rest)? What model is taught in Italian public and private language schools?
What spelling is used in those schools? Are they taught to write "behaviour" or "behavior", "traveller" or "traveler"?
I'm pretty sure that English books in most of Europe are published in the UK, where the teaching of English is a major trade. It would be interesting to check that but, as far as Spain is concerned, 100% of English language books are published in the UK or in Spain following the British variety.
That doesn't mean of course that "some" will travel to the US for a number of reasons (specific studies, scholarships, family ties, ebcause they prefer sunny California to foggy London, etc.) but the European continental "bulk" travels to the UK and Ireland to learn English. It's a matter of distance and costs, as well as a long founded prestige. As we say in Spanish, you'll find native English (from the UK) teachers "hasta en la sopa" (even in your soup).
Obviously, the world's young crowds have been in love with Hollywood and American music since the 1930s. Get the hearts and you'll win the world (be careful, though, with beating around the Bush and the like).
Even the Brits sing their pop music with an American accent!
Nevertheless, they revert to their own when speaking and do their best to include their European "partners". Business is business.
Quite a few of the Americans I've met (and who've been living in Europe for quite a few years) tend to adopt a more "refined" Bostonian like accent. I imagine you know what I mean. That is another interesting question.
>>Easterner's sentence is not correct, and I doubt a native speaker of a English>>
Is it correct to use an article "a" before the word "English"?
No it's not. ''English'' begins with a vowel sound and the correct word to use before a word with a vowel sound is ''an''.
But only if English is an adjective. In this case it is a noun and does not belong in the sentence Boy copied.
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Jordi,
As for the brand of English taught in public and private schools in Italy, I would say it differs from teacher to teacher. My husband had an English teacher who was really Latin American and spoke accented English at best. He still laughs about it to this day.
I agree that Italian vowel sounds (like their "a" tend to correspond with the British model more than the American model), but let me explian further what I mean.
My good friend Chiara (Italian also), who works as a translator, attended university for French, English and German. For her variety of English, I'd definitely say she tries to emulate an American Accent. She says words like "can't" as "kent". But I do think she might have been taught a British variety, for she used to call a vacation a holiday and when I first met her, she said "shall" a lot more. She now says "will" most of the time. She's even told me she wants to get rid of her Italian accent and has asked me to help her (I roughly speak GAE though I'm not sure HOW to help her). Plus, she wants to move to the States.
However, the point is that many people, like Chiara, are visibly choosing the American variety. I'm not sure what is actually influencing this - perhaps the huge presence of American movies, music, etc there - but I think it's an important trend that people are choosing this over their schooling. While I can't speak for every Italian as I've only been to Tuscany, this means that a new generation of teachers (at least in Tuscany) will teach the American variety.