Regional variation of Russian language?

garans   Monday, February 07, 2005, 19:18 GMT
Belorussian and Ukranian differ from Russian - I can not get a half of words, sounds and phrases.

Dialects - they are in villages, they are difficult to get, but they use the same sound system and the same language structure.

Of course to learn Belorussian, Ukranian, Bulgarian or even Polish or Serbian is much easier for an Russian than English, German, French etc.
Vytenis   Monday, February 07, 2005, 19:39 GMT
Well, the differences between some "dialects" within Chinese are certainly as great (if not greater) than between Russian and Belarussian. Its all the matter of politics. By the way, in Belarus most people speak Russian in their daily lives. Belarussian has a statuts of "official language", but in practice it is like Irish Gaelic in Ireland...
Jordi   Monday, February 07, 2005, 19:43 GMT
I imagine that 20 years of independence in Belarussia can change all that. As you say, it's a matter of politics.
Linguist   Monday, February 07, 2005, 19:54 GMT
the difference between Belorussian, Ukrainian and Russian is first of all in pronouciation, but written texts are easily can be understood, also the real ukrainian language exists only in 3 western ukrainian(nationalistic) regions, all other country speaks russian or some mixture of russian and ukrainian, belorussian language is the closest to Russian, but it exists mostly on the paper, as even the Belorussian president doesnt know it...

Russian language doesnt have any dialects, even the pronouciantion of letters "o" in unstressed position can't be considered as a dialect, in linguistics it is called "narechie" (i dont know the english term). also Moscow pronouciation is a literate one, and all contemprory russian language is just its Moscow dialect, in early 20th century there were real dialects, but power of Moscow eliminated them.
Linguist   Monday, February 07, 2005, 19:58 GMT
Jordi - Ireland is independant country, but irish gaelic isnt so popular just because of influence of english language, the same in Belorussia, Russian language is just more important. Even the ultra-right government wont change the situation.
Jordi   Monday, February 07, 2005, 20:57 GMT
Which are the real facts? Which is the percentage of the population speaking Belorussian? Since the languages are close it is easy to think that there will be a huge shift to Belorussian in the near future (since the country is independent and Belorussian has been made compulsory). It's harder to have Irish back as the language of Ireland since the difference of a Celtic language with English is very big indeed.
Someone   Tuesday, February 08, 2005, 00:14 GMT
I think the Belorussians are foolish for trying to back to their own language. The world should be coming closer together, not pushing itself apart.
Someone   Tuesday, February 08, 2005, 00:18 GMT
"to back" -> "to go back"
mishka   Tuesday, February 08, 2005, 02:01 GMT
I have been reading a book by Gumilev "The theory of ethnogenesis" (very entertaining stuff indeed) and mastered some nice ideas.
Any empire in its growth incorporates new territories and new nations (ethnoses) and thus starts assimilatation of them into one superethnos as the emperial language moves for one common stadard. Once the process of dilation ends and the superethnos splits up and the subethnoses (nations within superethnos) come to sense of their self-identity. The resulting dialects of Roman Empire are English, French, Italian, yes, the majority of Western European languages.
mishka   Tuesday, February 08, 2005, 02:11 GMT
Linguist, you wrote:
also Moscow pronouciation is a literate one.

I have been to Moscow, it was too funny for my belly to hear these drawn ah-ah every now and then. I had a travel by train through Siberia to Kiev ( 8 days long) and NOONE talks this way. The Moscovites sound 'leisurely exalted' to me.
Vytenis   Tuesday, February 08, 2005, 10:26 GMT
What is a dialect and what is a separate language anyway? My conclusion is that it has nothing to do with the factual level of difference in vovabulary, grmmar, pronunciation etc. It's more the question of politics, cultural tradition, historical circumstances etc. I have recently been to Switzerland and found that German spoken there is VERY different from Standard Berlin German. It's probably as different (if not more) than Dutch and German. I asked the Swiss people, why they did not develop their own standard variety, like Dutch, but they did not seem to know... Coming back to the question of Russian dialects, I can venture such comparison: standard German is like Russian and Swiss German is like Ukrainian :)) Does it sound truthful?
mishka   Tuesday, February 08, 2005, 11:21 GMT
In my opinion Ukranian is a separate language. I don't understand what they say on TV, what my brother-in-law talks to his friends sometimes.
Besides, the Ukranians have their own classic literature as a pattern.
Vytenis   Tuesday, February 08, 2005, 11:35 GMT
The same is with Swiss German: Germans cannot understand it :)) Switzerland have their own literature too. Maybe they write official writings in Standard German, but there must exist a vast body of literature in Swiss German too. These "dialects" are just too different from each other... Any Swiss ppl on this forum?
Linguist   Tuesday, February 08, 2005, 12:32 GMT
mishka - if you didnt like Moscow speech, it doesnt mean that it isnt a literate one;) i know people from Nakhodka, from Vladivostok, from Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk and they have very good literate pronouciation and sound like all Moscovites, also i ve been everywhere from Karelia till Astrakhan', again people speak the same,(i dont count gypsies, chechens, georgians, tajiks etc) in which strange region do you live? Chukotka?:D
also - it s time to know that english is a germanic language, it s not the dialect of Latin, as you ment.

Vytenis you r right, ukrainian language is called sometimes "little russian", it s a dialect which could invent it s own standard unlike Swiss German, but i doubt that many people can speak literate ukrainian, western part of the country speak strange language - mixture of old polish, hungarian and east slavic, where the real ukrainian is spoken is still an enigma for me, all ukrainians whom i know, speak russian.
Jordi   Tuesday, February 08, 2005, 13:20 GMT
Dear linguist:
Your last paragraph seems very strange indeed. You seem to say that the Ukrainian language doesn't exist and what seems even more strange is your news about a language that would be a mixture of Old Polish, Hungarian and East Slavic.
Could you please tell me if you are speaking as a Russian nationalist or are you really speaking as a trained linguist?
I would suggest you published that in an Ukrainian newspaper so that the readers may tell you if Ukrainian really exists or not.