Crone

rich7   Friday, March 11, 2005, 06:55 GMT
I came across this word and immediatelly went for the dictionary finding this definitions:

1. offensive term: an offensive term that deliberately insults a woman’s age, appearance, and temperament ( insult )


2. woman over 40: a woman aged over 40 ( used appreciatively )

Hence my following question: How come a word can have similar meanings and yet can be used in opposite ways?

If you pay attention to the words in parenthesis in both definitions you will notice the opposition.

PS. is "opposition the right word to choose here?

Thanks.....
Amber   Friday, March 11, 2005, 07:11 GMT
I have never heard "crone" used in an "appreciative" manner to describe a woman. It is always taken as an insult. A woman of a certain age might self-deprecatingly call herself a crone, but even that conjures up images of a withered old sea hag.
Deborah   Friday, March 11, 2005, 14:18 GMT
It all depends on what it is that you're appreciating:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&oi=defmore&q=define:crone

rich7, I think the word you're looking for is "contradiction."
Deborah   Friday, March 11, 2005, 14:24 GMT
I should have said that it depends on who is doing the appreciating and what it is about the old woman that is being appreciated.
Ed   Friday, March 11, 2005, 19:33 GMT
I've never heard such a word before.
Roberto   Friday, March 11, 2005, 19:37 GMT
Crone

A withered old woman [ middle english from early french "carogne" (carrion), ultimately from Latin "carn-, caro" (flesh) ]
Amber   Saturday, March 12, 2005, 04:13 GMT
Thank you for that link, Deborah. It jogged my memory -- Yes, in wiccan and pagan circles, "crone" is an esteemed level that a woman reaches when she hits a certain age (like a sage or a tribal elder). But, as with most wiccan/pagan terminology, "crone" has been subverted by the conquering Christian majority, and is now generally used derisively. The same thing happened to the word "witch", where once it referred to a sorcerer or wizard, now is generally used to describe a woman of ill temperament, dubious nature, or of poor countenance.
Travis   Saturday, March 12, 2005, 06:01 GMT
I would strongly doubt the existance of any historical "wiccan" traditions as such, as such are probably a modern syncretic creation. Rather, historically, in pre-Christian Northern Europe there was no one single thing like such, but rather a whole slew of different traditions, including Celtic, Germanic (including Nordic ones, but similar ones were also present in areas of what is now Northwestern Germany to a relatively late date), Baltic, Slavic, and Baltic-Finnic ones. Note that these were not singular, monolithic, codified constructs, but rather groupings of associated beliefs and traditions and like. Of these, the ones that most likely persisted in an unbroken fashion until a relatively late date are the Baltic (especially in what is now Lithuania, where christianization really only fully occurred with the union of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Kingdom of Poland, and even then on a popular level, various traditions linked with such still persisted), Baltic-Finnic, and Nordic (note that even though many areas were /nominally/ Christianized in the 11th century, such did not really fully occur throughout the whole of society until somewhat later) ones. These, however, cannot be considered to be any unified "Wicca" tradition at all, and do not maintain any continuous link with such things today, besides their remains such as things like various traditions still held in areas of Lithuania, and the mythology that was used as the basis of the Kalevala.
Amber   Saturday, March 12, 2005, 06:27 GMT
When I mentioned "wicca" I was referring to the religion based on ancient, usually northern European pagan beliefs, which traditionally revolve around a fertility Goddess and her consort, a horned God. Wicca, as any true witch knows, is a modern religion that is an amalgation of many Pre-Christian practices and beliefs. However, the concept of the triple goddess (maiden, mother, crone) is a centuries old belief that pre-dates Christianity.
Someone   Saturday, March 12, 2005, 06:33 GMT
I agree that crone is pretty much always bad.