Dead And Endangered Languages

Brennus   Saturday, March 19, 2005, 09:02 GMT
It is estimated that about one of the world's 6,000 or so languages dies every day. At this rate, the great majority of today's languages will be gone in 200 years.

Some languages and dialects that have died out over the past 250 years include Dalmatian (Romance - Croatia), Cornish and Manx (Celtic - England ), Norn (Germanic - Scotland ), Polabian and Kashubian (Slavic - Germany), Cappadocian Greek (Hellenic - Turkey), Northern Cherokee (Iroquoian - U.S.) just to name a few.

Yet, when a language dies, it is not just a vocabulary that dies it is a certain way of thinking that dies too. For example, Irish has expressions like dalan greine "a sudden burst of sunshine" and biog an tsioc "rain in frosty weather"; The Micmac Indian language of Nova Scotia has verbs meaning "to snowshoe about" and "to make tracks with snowshoes" according to Albert D. DeBlois. Then, there are the historical names like the Galatian king Epsognathos whose name meant "He who knows horses well" and the Sioux Indian Chief Tasunka Kokipapi whose name has been translated as both "Young Man Afraid Of His Horses" and "The Man Of Whose Horses We Are Afraid."

What dead or endangered languages are you most interested in or concerned about? What do you know about them?
Brennus   Saturday, March 19, 2005, 09:05 GMT
Epsognathos should be Eposognathos. Epo = Horses So = Well Gnathos "knowing".
!   Saturday, March 19, 2005, 11:19 GMT
Well languages come and go ... Always has been like that !
I'm curious what the future will bring us , will there be new languages ???
Travis   Saturday, March 19, 2005, 11:36 GMT
Well, English has been spreading quite a ways in the last three centuries, and I doubt that at the everyday spoken level it necessarily will stay as a coherent single language (read: crossintelligable in speech) for too much long, even though it's likely, for obvious reasons, that the literary language known as English, and consequently also the formal language (note: not that used in everyday speech) will stay as one for far longer. Hence, it's likely for situations to develop in the relative near future where two people may easily understand each other in writing, yet which would be unlikely to be able to have much ease in understanding each other in speech, unless one or both of them switches to a more formal (and thus conservative) register.

One thing that one must note is that even though people often assume today that English is becoming closer together, not further apart, with respect to dialects within it, at least here in the US, at least from what I've read, that's not actually the case, even though a lot of people believe that it is. For example, there are relatively recent phonological changes showing up in North American English dialects, such as the Northern Cities Shift, which wouldn't be the case if North American English dialects were truly converging overall.

In addition, other things that must be kept into consideration are things like wholesale grammatical changes in spoken North American English, such as with respect to the modal system, which are not present outside of North American English. Even the pronoun system has been changing in North American English, for example the addition of new second person plural forms in speech. The reason why things like this are important is that it emphasizes that changes in dialects are not necessarily just a matter of pronunciation and vocabulary, but rather can more fundamentally affect the underlying grammar as a whole relatively easily, and such changes in grammar may be more likely to promote more overall separation than just phonological changes alone.
Sander   Sunday, March 20, 2005, 09:50 GMT
Brennus,

=>It is estimated that about one of the world's 6,000 or so languages dies every day. At this rate, the great majority of today's languages will be gone in 200 years. <=

Really,I usually stick to the numbers,but I can't believe this!
For one thing,

6000/365=16,438 (-/+) so instead of 200 years with these numbers it would only take 16,5 years,thats odd.

Otherwise there would be 365days *200years = 73000 languages who would have died out in those 200 years.This can't be right.(Or..I have made a Gigantic math mistake.)
Adam   Sunday, March 20, 2005, 10:41 GMT
Manx was not a language spoken in England, because the Isle of Man isn't a part of England.

It's also not a part of the UK at all.
Adam   Sunday, March 20, 2005, 11:15 GMT
The Harry Potter books are to be published in ancient Greek, which is a dead language -

Harry Potter to be published in ancient Greek



Publishers to use phenomenal success of schoolboy wizard to rekindle interest in ancient language






The publishers of the best-selling Harry Potter children's books have announced plans to release an ancient Greek translation of the series.

With global interest in J K Rowling's schoolboy wizard peaked by the success of its film tie-in, publishers Bloomberg believe the stories could make learning the ancient language more fun.

Making ancient Greek accessible

The author of the stories which have sold 120 million copies worldwide believes that they can help to lessen the dread that many children feel in approaching the language.

Modern Greek translations of the series have been topping the best-sellers list in Greece where Harry Potter toys are expected to dominate the Christmas market.

A Latin version of Harry Potter's adventures is also on its way with both works due to hit the shelves in 2003.

Bloomberg have yet to identify a translator for the ancient Greek version but are optimistic of having it ready in 18 months.

Not expected to be best-sellers

Emma Matthewson, Rowling's editor at Bloomsbury, told the Daily Telegraph: "We aren't under any illusions that Latin and Greek will be best-sellers but we think that it will mean much more fun lessons for anyone studying Latin and Greek."

Rowling, a former classics student herself is enthusiastic about the project and admits the books are littered with references to Greek mythology.

Fluffy, the three-headed dog that guards the philosopher's stone and can only be wooed with music, is inspired by Cerberus, wooed by Orpheus with his lyre so that he can enter the underworld.

Ancient Greek and Latin will join the list of 40 languages into which the books have been translated.



http://www.greece.gr/CULTURE/Literature/harrypottertobepublishedinancientgreek.stm
greg   Sunday, March 20, 2005, 14:59 GMT
The figures mentioned by Brennus are unfortunately true. Amerindian languages are facing a harsh reality : 175 of them remain in use today while the figure was 300 when Christopher Colombus landed in the Americas.

More discouraging figures.
More than 3.000 languages are severely endangered.
4% of the world population speak 96 % of all languages.
5.400 languages are not even present on internet.
80 % of African languages are not written yet.
3.560 languages in 8 countries only : Papua New Guinea (832), Indonesia (731), Nigeria (515), India (400), Mexico (295), Cameroon (286), Australia (268) and Brazil (234).
Sander   Sunday, March 20, 2005, 16:30 GMT
=>3.560 languages in 8 countries only : Papua New Guinea (832), Indonesia (731), Nigeria (515), India (400), Mexico (295), Cameroon (286), Australia (268) and Brazil (234). <=

Are these all completly different languages or mere dialects of a bigger one ???
greg   Sunday, March 20, 2005, 17:34 GMT
Sander : I have no clue ! Perhaps there are linguistic superfamilies (as Indo-European) the elements of which are not recognised by locutors to be apparented ?



Travis,

Your analysis is quite convincing. The trends occurring in English that you displayed are not unprecedented.

Classical Latin (equivalent to literary English) hasn’t volatilised yet : it’s still in use in Vatican City. 21st-century Latinists may easily communicate in writing while their probably accented speaking could be a problem, even if they’d use Cicero’s Latin. Vulgar- or Low-Latin variants – commensurate with current English dialectal or standard ones – shared a certain degree of graphic coherence (except substrata, loanwords or innovations) despite increasingly individualising pronunciation. Mutual intelligibility among literate Low-Latin speakers is perhaps not unthinkable. However, illiterate people may have been at pain to understand their fellows living 100 km away.

As you said, phonology is a parameter subject to quicker and more perceptible change, all other things being (almost) equal : see the European/American contrast noticeable among such varied languages as Portuguese, Spanish, English and French.

Your examples about ‘early’ grammar change within the North American native-speaker base are conclusive. Yet I’d very much appreciate your providing an illustration of modal-system innovations typical of Northern America : I’m not getting the picture.

I find your argument all the more powerful as non-native users of English may accelerate the phenomenon, should English turn out to be a real lingua franca.
Sander   Sunday, March 20, 2005, 18:19 GMT
greg,


=>Sander : I have no clue ! Perhaps there are linguistic superfamilies (as Indo-European) the elements of which are not recognised by locutors to be apparented ? <=

If the rate the are (according to Brennus) dying out we might never know.A shame.
Wa   Sunday, March 20, 2005, 18:32 GMT
I heard Sanskrit , Greek and Latin are RELATED !
greg   Sunday, March 20, 2005, 20:15 GMT
Wa : they indeed are.
Brennus   Sunday, March 20, 2005, 20:17 GMT
Sander,

Thanks for your reply. I think that the survey (which was done by a British linguistics professor) does not mean that every one of the 6,000 languages will die on a per diem basis. So, this means that some of the larger minority languages like Ukrainian, Uzbek and Tibetan, say, might still last for about another 200 years but ultimately they will succumb to either Russian and / or Chinese.
Brennus   Monday, March 21, 2005, 05:26 GMT
Sander (Cont.),

I'm not much of statistician but someone more knowlegeable in statistics told me that the little more than one-a-day figure was probably arrived at by calculating the intial rates at which languages are disappearing. Eventually, the initial rates will slow down and become a fixed rate of maybe one language lost every thirteen days. This could stretch the extinction process of minority languages out to something closer to another 200 years instead of the 16.5 years which you calculated.