UK Government ignores Cornish Language

Joe   Sunday, April 03, 2005, 18:42 GMT

You just have to look at the Celtic place names in Cornwall to see that it was never Anglo-Saxon. Up until the Prayer Book Rebellion in 1549 (when ten percent of the population were executed by the English state),
everyone in Cornwall spoke Cornish and it was not until the late 1700's that the language was finally wiped out. Ok, a lot of people have settled in Cornwall since then, but you could say the same about Scotland or Wales. The Cornish were recently denied their own Assembly by the UK government, ignoring a 50,000 local petition.

http://www.senedhkernow.com
Damian   Sunday, April 03, 2005, 22:38 GMT
JOE:

Thanks for the Kernow link...interesting.

The word "Senedh" I assume means Assembly, or Parliament. In Welsh the same word is "Senedd". The "DD" sound in Welsh is exactly the same as the "TH" sound in the English "the", "with" "than" etc.

I notice also the "Dyddh da! greeting.....literally "Good day". In Welsh it's "Dydd da"....almost identical.

Just a look at a map of Cornwall and the place names are quite different from anywhere else in England in the main, even from those next door in Devon. I can't wait to go down there someday soon. I want to see what Indian Queens looks like for starters! How did that place get called such a name? It's hardly Cornish is it?
Lazar   Monday, April 04, 2005, 03:25 GMT
I found out about Berwick-upon Tweed being at war with Russia(http://www.answers.com/topic/berwick-upon-tweed). I don't know how to do hyperlinks. :-(

Until 1885, official documents referred to Berwick-upon-Tweed as distinct from England and Scotland. In 1853, Queen Victoria signed a declaration of war against Russia as "Victoria, Queen of Great Britain, Ireland, Berwick-upon-Tweed and all British Dominions". But when she signed the peace treaty, she left out Berwick-upon-Tweed, leaving the town technically at war with Russia. In 1966 Berwick-upon-Tweed finally signed a peace treaty with the Soviet Union.
Lazar   Monday, April 04, 2005, 03:26 GMT
<<I don't know how to do hyperlinks.>>

Oh, I guess I figured out how to do them then.
Anon   Monday, April 04, 2005, 12:31 GMT

"The village of Indian Queens, Cornwall takes its name from the legendary journey of Princess Pocahontas, who travelled from North America in 1616 to be presented at the court of Queen Elizabeth I by Captain John Smith whose life she had twice saved. It is believed that she stayed there overnight at a roadside inn."
Adam   Wednesday, April 06, 2005, 18:24 GMT
"The Cornish were recently denied their own Assembly by the UK government, ignoring a 50,000 local petition. "


They aren't alone, are they? 80% of British people don't have their own regional assemblies. Only the Scots and the Welsh do.

Buyt it's funny how people called me racist for demanding a Parliament for England, but then complain when Cornwall (which is a part of England, anyway) also isn't allowed its own Parliament.
Adam   Wednesday, April 06, 2005, 18:25 GMT
"Scotland has no designs at all on either Cumbria or Northumberland.......we've never been plunderers!!"

No???!!
Adam   Wednesday, April 06, 2005, 18:34 GMT
Some Cornish phrases -

GREETINGS

Good day - Dydh da

Good morning - Myttin da

Good afternoon - Dohajydh da

Good evening - Gorthugher da

How are you? - Fatla genes?

I am well thank you - Yn poynt da, meur ras.

Who are you? - Piw os'ta?

I am Matthew - Matthew ov



GENERAL

Thank you - Meur ras

Please - Marpleg

No thank you? - Na vynnav, meur ras.

What is the time? - Py eur yw hi?



IN THE PUB

What do you want to drink? - Pandra vynn'ta dh'y eva?

Pint of beer please. - Pinta korev marpleg.

Cheers - Yeghes da / Sowena

Do you want something to eat? - A vynn'ta kavoes neppyth dh'y dhybri?

Where is the toilet? - Ple'ma an bysva?



NUMBERS

0 - 10

mann onan dew tri peswar pymp hwegh seyth eth naw deg



11 - 20

unnek dewdhek trydhek peswardhek pymthek hwetek seytek etek nawnsek ugens



1-4 (feminine)

unn diw teyr peder



WEATHER

What fine weather! - Ass yw brav an gewer!

What awful weather! - Ass yw euthek an gewer!

It is raining - Yma ow kul glaw

It is sunny - Howlek yw hi

It is hot - Toemm yw hi

It is cold - Yeyn yw hi



INSTRUCTIONS

Come here! - Deus omma!

Come on inside - Deus a-ji

Shut up! - Taw taves / Syns dha glapp

Don't do that - Na wra henna



FAREWELLS

Good bye (God be with you) - Dyw genes

Good bye (see you) - Dha weles

Good night - Nos dha







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Some of England's placenames in Cornish -

York - Evrog

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Yorkshire = Bro Evrog. The old Celtic for York was 'Eboricum'

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Canterbury - Kargant
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Bath - Karvath

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Devon - Dewnens

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Cambridge - Kargront
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Somerset - Gwlas an hav

Land of the summer

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Minehead - Menydh

Minehead is a corruption of the British word 'menydh' (mountain).

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Oxford - Rysoghen

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Rys (ford) + oghen (ox). Early records show the British name was Rydychen.

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London - Loundres

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Exeter - Karesk

This is a documented placename going back more than a 1000 years. Kar (fortified town) + Esk (old name for Exe). This river name is a cognate of the Usk, which comes from the old Celtic word for water. It may possibly have been 'fast flowing water', and giving us our modern Cornish word 'uskis' (quickly).

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Plymouth - Aberplymm

The Cornish version is of course a name made up by translating the English placename. However, remember that 'Plym' is actually from Celtic times anyway.

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Delabole - Delyowboll

(Delyow = leaves + Poll = pit)


http://www.cornish-language.org/english/placenames.asp
Adam   Wednesday, April 06, 2005, 18:46 GMT
A few more -

Nadelik lowen ha blydhen nowydh da = Happy Christmas and good new year

2. Tas Nadelik = Father Christmas

3. Gwydhenn Nadelik = Christmas tree

4. Gans gorhemmynnadow a'n gwella = with best wishes

5. Nadelik lowen re'gas bo = may you have a happy Christmas



Christmas - Nadelik

Nadelik lowen ha blydhen nowydh da = happy Christmas and a good new year.

when ? - pana ?

pana termyn a vynn ta dos ? = what time do you want to come ?
pan vo chons dhymm ! = when I have a chance.

why ? - prag ?

prag yma tren ena ? = why is there a train there?

what ? - pandra / pyth

pandra hwer genev ? = what is happening to me ?
pyth yw henna ? = what is that ?

who ? - piw ?

piw eus ena ? = who is there ?

where ? - ple ?

ple'ma an privedhyow = where are the conveniences?

Welcome - Dynnargh

Kammbronn a'gas dynnergh = Camborne welcomes you.

name - hanow



to name = henwel

past participle = henwys

cave - fow, gogo, kav, mogow

feminine

do - gul (verb)

my a wra = i do
ty a wra = you do
ev/hi a wra = he/she does
ni a wra = we do
hwi a wra = you (pl.) do
i a wra = they do

gwrys = done/made

find - kavoes (verb)


lose - kelli


sit - esedha (verb)


stand - sevel (verb)

a stand (ie bus stop) = savla
a standpoint = savboynt

walk - kerdhes


jump - lamma


swim - neuvya


fly - nija


aeroplane - ayrenn

also 'jynn ebrenn' or 'jynn nija'

helicopter - askell-dro


white thorn - spernenn wynn


beach trees - fowydh


oak - derow


holly - kelyn


trees - gwydh
PMon   Wednesday, April 06, 2005, 20:36 GMT
Just to remind those who may not remember (or did not know). The Simpsons recently had a go at reviving Cornish.

Here are a coupole of news stories on it:

http://www.cornwall24.co.uk/article140.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cornwall/uncovered/stories/dec_2004/thesimpsons.shtml
Joe   Thursday, April 07, 2005, 22:22 GMT
"80% of British people don't have their own regional assemblies."

I would say that 90% of English are not interested in local assemblies.
The North East had their chance and turned it down.

A recent poll in Cornwall showed that over 50% were in favour of a Cornish Assembly, there was a 50,000 petition but the UK government rejected the idea.

A Parliament for England AND a Cornish Assembly seem like a good idea to me !

Even the English Democrats are in favour of "greater autonomy for Cornwall." http://www.englishdemocrats.org.uk/principals.php
Damian   Friday, April 08, 2005, 07:56 GMT
The more I read and study about Cornwall and the Cornish the more it seems different from the rest of England...or just "from England" as some of them would say.

It would seem difficult though to distinguish between the true Cornish people (those Cornish by heritage) and those Cornish by adoption, as Cornwall is a County to which many people have migrated because of it's mild climate and close proximity to the sea and also because of distinctive character, a sense of "difference".

Nobody can deny it's Celtic origins, but even so is it viable for just one single County to stake a claim for a separate Assembly? I mean, it's entire population is less than half that of the city of Birmingham.
Anon   Friday, April 08, 2005, 11:07 GMT
I see what you're getting at about the relatively small Cornish population of only 500,000, but for example try telling the people from the Duchy of Luxembourg that they don't exist !

"The Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, a constitutional monarchy, is an independent sovereign state, tucked between Belgium, France and Germany (cf Luxembourg in Europe map). The country is 84 km (51 miles) long and 52 km (32 miles) wide, encompassing an area of 2586 square kilometres (999 square miles) with a population of 451 600 inhabitants"
Damian   Friday, April 08, 2005, 14:52 GMT
Thanks, Anon...that will strengthen still further Cornwall's case for Independence and Self Government. If they stay within the EU there will be no need for customs and passport controls on the Tamar Bridge at Saltash!
Adam   Friday, April 08, 2005, 18:51 GMT
By Jonathan Duffy
BBC News Online


Britain is about to get a new official language. It dates back to the 9th Century and is hundreds of years older than modern English. But there's one problem - which version to use?

The English language is far and away Britannia's greatest export. It is geographically the most widespread language on Earth and 40% of Europeans claim to know English as a foreign tongue.

What does Cornish sound like? Click here to find out.
At home however, things are rather different. In recent years, there has been a resurgence of ancient Celtic tongues around the British Isles.


Cornwall's greatest export? Seafood chef Rick Stein

Several have official minority status and now Cornish looks like joining them as a protected language.

Don't hold your breath if you are expecting bi-lingual road signs around the South West, as is the case in Wales.

Rather, public bodies will have to protect and promote the use of Cornish. It will be illegal for them to discriminate against Cornish speakers and they will have a duty not to suppress the language.

Its new status is not yet official but St Ives MP Andrew George says he has been given the governmental nod and an announcement is expected in the autumn.


UK's official minority languages

1: Welsh

2: Gaelic (Scottish)

3: Gaelic (Irish)

4: Scots

5: Ulster Scots




The news is a victory for the handful of fluent speakers of the language.

"The last government wasn't interested and we've been campaigning for this for about seven years," says George Ansell, of the Cornish Language Board.

Yet amid the back slapping, there is disagreement over which brand of Cornish should get the official stamp.

"It's an emotionally charged issue," acknowledges Prof Philip Payton, of the Institute of Cornish Studies.

The language has at least three strands, based around different spellings and some varying vocabulary. They are:


Modern Cornish
Unified Cornish
Common Cornish
Dating back to the 9th Century, the Cornish language evolved over hundreds of years and claimed an estimated 40,000 speakers at the time of the Norman Conquest, before dying out around 1800.

Modern Cornish heralds from the end of that period, drawing on points of grammar and pronunciation that were documented as the language expired.


The country has a rich and fascinating history

At the time, Cornish was becoming heavily influenced by English which had steamrollered its way through the county.

That spirit is maintained in the revised version of Modern Cornish used today, which is not shy about borrowing English words such as "telephone" and "television".

Yet when the first Cornish revival picked up steam in the 20th Century, it drew instead on an older version of the language.

Keeping a distance

By the 1920s this revised form became known as Unified Cornish. And 1988 saw a breakaway faction known as Common Cornish.


It'll certainly fool the tourists

Each version uses its own unique spellings, and new words have been thought up to steer clear of the English influence.

"Pellgowser" is the Common Cornish word for "telephone" (it literally translates as "far-speaker"); "pellwollok" is "television" and "gwydheo" is "video".

There are even words for "internet" - "kesroesweyth" and "e-mail" - "e-bost" (literally, "e-post").

Modern Cornish devotee Richard Gendall says the rival dialects are "makey uppy" and "pseudo Celtic".

Dressing it up

"It was all part of a drive in the last century to overstate Cornwall's Celtic roots. They even came up with a Cornish kilt and Cornish bagpipes. These never existed," says Mr Glendall.


Eden Project? Is there a Common Cornish translation

"I'm a pragmatist. I accept that Cornish was heavily influenced by English culture and language before it died out."

Yet Common Cornish speaker Paul Dunbar winces at the thought of English infecting the Cornish tongue.

"Students don't want to be breaking into English several times in a sentence when talking about something technical. It's irritating to have to use the language that bloody murdered Cornish," he says.

It's impossible say who has the high ground. There are few hard facts, but it's generally agreed Common Cornish is the most widely spoken. It has been particularly successful at cornering the market for new learners.

Yet Modern Cornish is purer, says Prof Payton, who "shares the academic scepticism" about its main rival.


The language saw some rocky years

So what does the future hold? Prof Payton and George Ansell agree the generic Cornish language will be officially recognised, rather than one particular dialect.

After that "it's for the people of the Cornish language to decide" says Prof Payton.


"It may be we chose one at the expense of the other, or that we agree to recognise a plurality, or that some years down the line there will be a convergence of them all."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2206191.stm