Wouldn't Spanish be a BETTER choice?

javier   Friday, April 01, 2005, 15:14 GMT
To me saying "Should X language be a better choice as LINGUA FRANCA" is a bit useless. The international language represents the dominant culture in the world.
Ved   Friday, April 01, 2005, 15:29 GMT
...and this is why, if forced to, I would bet on Mandarin or Hindi as the next dominant languages of the world.
Linguist   Friday, April 01, 2005, 19:29 GMT
>>The international language represents the dominant culture in the world

I would disagree, actually it is representing the most powerful country in all aspects - in political, economical, military etc. Unfortunately there's no american culture, well of course if you think that McDonalds and coke is culture......
Deborah   Friday, April 01, 2005, 19:29 GMT
Is Hindi the language that's already in place for most business transactions in India? If not, I wouldn't bet on it becoming a dominant language should Indian become the dominant world power.
mjd   Friday, April 01, 2005, 19:37 GMT
I don't think it represents the most powerful culture in the world, but perhaps economic and political power. I don't think cultures in and of themselves can be more "powerful" than others.

As for the "McDonalds/coke" thing (without starting a flame war)...I always get a kick out of the "no American culture" nonsense. I'm just curious as to what these people consider the culture of Louisiana, or the Deep South, jazz, blues, rock, rap, ethnic neighborhoods in New York City and other urban areas, the culture of the people of the Appalachians, cowboys, etc. etc. etc. (the list goes on and on throughout the 50 states).

I think it's safe to say that Linguist isn't really a linguist and perhaps he needs to look up the word "culture."
Toasté   Friday, April 01, 2005, 19:39 GMT
Chile has reached 'first world' status if you are in the rich, middle class or expatriate minorities, but for everyone else it still has a long way to go.
american nic   Friday, April 01, 2005, 19:53 GMT
I'm pretty sure English is mostly used in Indian business...correct me if I wrong...and no culture in the US?? Lol.
James   Friday, April 01, 2005, 21:10 GMT
I don't think any language will pass up English for some time either. Chinese has the most native speakers, but it isn't spoken throughout the entire world like English is, China is too Red. The South American countries won't outsmart American. They kidnap anyway with brain cells. The only way Spanish will overtake English is you the South American countries do what Mexico does, have 25 million people come across the border (many illegally) to America. Most of the Southwest is Mexican now. If Portuguese were to grow, it would be Brazilian and not Continental because there are less than 15 million people in Portugal (and the economy has hardly moved forward) and there more than 150 million people in Brazil (a young country with a lot of time to grow).
greg   Friday, April 01, 2005, 21:20 GMT
James : "Chinese has the most native speakers, but it isn't spoken throughout the entire world like English is".

19th century : English has the most native speakers, but it isn't spoken throughout the entire world like French is.
Travis   Friday, April 01, 2005, 21:30 GMT
This thing though is that for Chinese to displace English, it would have become politically dominant on a global scale. The thing though is that it's looking more like that if the US were to become dislodged from it's current position, by, say, for example, a civil war of one sort or another (which is one of the few ways I can see such happening from the present standpoint), that it wouldn't be China which'd take the US's place on a global political level, but rather it'd be most likely the EU, where English already has an effective lingua franca status internally, even though it is not the dominant language there in any official capacity. The thing is that the EU already has a lot of political connections and influence globally, whereas China is rather isolated politically, besides economic contacts with other countries, which would impair the ability for China to actually create any kind of global hegemony, which would be necessary for slingshotting Mandarin into a global lingua franca status. Hence while the US may lose its position, that wouldn't necessarily mean that *English* would lose its position with it.
greg   Friday, April 01, 2005, 21:36 GMT
Travis : "China is rather isolated politically".

France and China are entertaining very promising relationships (including naval manoeuvres). The EU is about to lift the embargo on weapon sales. The EU is China's 1st or 2nd trading partner.
Ved   Saturday, April 02, 2005, 08:01 GMT
Whether we like it or not, China is the next world power, and quite possibly, India is too.

Empires come and go. Linguae francae come and go. Although I don't believe this will happen any time soon, English will inevitably some day lose its privileged status in the world, just like every single lingua franca before it has. Without exception.

Historia magistra vitae est.
Travis   Saturday, April 02, 2005, 08:11 GMT
I still see little reason why China or India would be *more* likely for that position, as a whole, than the EU, in general, unless the EU itself dissolved, thanks to the antics of groups like Vlaams Belang (formerly Vlaams Blok), Nationaldemokratische Partei Deutschlands, Dansk Folkepartiet, Front Nationale, Austrian Freedom Party, and so on and so forth, or due to unresolvable controversy over the European Constitution thing. Even still, the thing is that English is far more widespread than Mandarin or Hindi, which are rather limited to single countries or a few geographically close together countries, on a global scale, at this point, which is something that would make it hard to dislodge from its current position; it is no longer the language of any single country, so hence the political fall on a global level of any single country would be not necessarily enough to dislodge it alone. Not that English's position will last forever, of course, but at this point it seems like it would take a *lot* to practically dislodge English.

As for the comparison of English today with French yesterday, one difference one must remember is that French was never really the language of any more than a few closely geographically grouped countries, of which on one was of any major global standing, and also how much of the general population of much of the world (that is, not the social elites) actually learned French at all? This is one factor which may help entrench English's role as a lingua franca, versus the ability of French to get rapidly swept away once France itself lost its global political status; of course, though, I don't have any statistics or figures on this at the moment, so I cannot be certain, but this is something that must be kept in consideration when making this comparison.
Travis   Saturday, April 02, 2005, 08:32 GMT
Well, to put it this way, I'm just rather skeptical about the likelihood of English to lose its lingua franca status any time soon, unless both the EU dissolved, for one reason or another, and the US either suffered severe economic problems of some kind, or faced some kind of significant civil conflict, for whatever reason. Its having that status may very well not last forever, of course, but it doesn't seem like today, or tomorrow, is when it will lose it. It may lose it not through being directly displaced, but rather through fragmenting at the informal spoken level, slowly and barely perceptibly at any given moment, like Latin did, leaving a formal literary language with a remaining lingua franca position, and a number of different descendant languages, in its wake.
greg   Saturday, April 02, 2005, 14:41 GMT
Travis,

"English is far more widespread than Mandarin".
For now. It would be interesting to spot where you can find Mandarinophones. My bet : everywhere (in addition to traditional places inhabited by overseas Chinese : Singapore etc).

"French was never really the language of any more than a few closely geographically grouped countries".
That's true if you think about France, Belgium and Switzerland. That's not true if you include Maghreb, West and Central Africa, Egypt, Lebanon, Québec, Louisiana, Madagascar etc.