Baby Talk

Anna   Thursday, April 07, 2005, 12:57 GMT
Deborah mentioned that in Russia a teacher used diminutives with 10-year-old kids. I'd like to know, how it is in different countries. With how old kids do adults use baby talk words? Just with really young children (0-3) or even with school age kids?

In Japanese mothers sometimes double the words when talking to their kids, for example me (eye/eyes) becomes o-meme and te (hand/hands) becomes o-tete. Some verbs are also said differently: nenne suru = to sleep (adult word: neru), an'yo suru =to walk, o-shikko suru = to pee ...
Deborah   Thursday, April 07, 2005, 20:57 GMT
Anna, I'm not sure the dimunitives I was talking about would necessarily be considered baby talk. Russians just seem to really like to use diminutives. (Mishka or others, please let me know if I'm wrong.) One of my Russian friends was frustrated by my objection her calling me "Debbie", because she said she *needed* to call me by a diminutive. She told me that in Russian, names have different diminutive forms, expressing different degrees of "preciousness".

For example:

Ekaterina
1st level: Katya
2nd level: Katenka/Katyusha
3rd level: Katyushenka
Travis   Thursday, April 07, 2005, 21:36 GMT
Well, this may be rather analogous to how many names in English have multiple forms, with a longer form that is used in a formal fashion, but one or more shorter forms which are used in a general fashion, even in contexts which would be relatively formal as a whole, and which are often the names by which individuals are commonly known (and are not interchangeable, as two different individuals may formally have the same name, but are always known by different short forms, for example, "Liz" versus "Beth" for "Elizabeth"), along with one or more diminuitive forms, which be formed via suffixation or truncation, which are often used to express overall closeness and affection, but which *also* can come to be used as the name by which a given individual is known by default.

Hence, a whole slew of different names can be derived from a single root formal name, via different types of truncations (c.f. "Liz" versus "Beth"), sound changes (c.f. "Katie" versus "Kathy" for "Katherine", and "Bill" versus "William"), diminuitive suffixes (c.f. "Kate" versus "Katie"), and so on. However, someone may be "normally" known by only a certain form derived from what their name is formally, even though in other contexts, such as by their family or close friends, they may be generally known by another form of the same name, while at the same time they often may *not* be known by what their name is formally; for example, many individuals who are formally named "Elizabeth", "William", or "Katherine" are generally not called by that name, but rather a derived form of that name.
Deborah   Friday, April 08, 2005, 00:21 GMT
And then there are lots of people who's given names are actually diminutives.
Deborah   Friday, April 08, 2005, 00:28 GMT
who's --> whose
Bree   Friday, April 08, 2005, 03:35 GMT
Travis said: <<(c.f. "Katie" versus "Kathy" for "Katherine", and "Bill" versus "William")>>

Deborah said: <<And then there are lots of people who's given names are actually diminutives.>>

Funnily enough, I have a cousin whose given name is "Billy" not William, and another named "Katie" not Katherine. Billy is in his 20s now so it's okay, but when he's in his 60s he'll still be cutesy sounding "Billy".
Travis   Friday, April 08, 2005, 03:48 GMT
Even still though, "Billy" is a name which is derived from "William", and is a diminuitive in form, and the same goes with "Katie" being a diminuitive derived from "Katherine"; even they may be actually named "Billy" and "Katie", those are still derived from formal name forms overall.
Sander   Friday, April 08, 2005, 14:21 GMT
=>Even still though, "Billy" is a name which is derived from "William"<=

Really?!

Not from "Bernard" or something like that?!...william....strange.
Deborah   Friday, April 08, 2005, 22:30 GMT
Sander,

I think some diminutive forms of English names came about as rhymes for other diminutive forms: William --> Will, Bill; Margaret --> Meg, Peg.

I think the the English names that have the most diminutives are Elizabeth (Liz, Lizzie, Liza, Beth, Betty, Betsy & more) and Margaret (Marge, Margie, Meg, Peg, Peggy & more).
Travis   Friday, April 08, 2005, 22:36 GMT
One thing that one must remember is that at any given point in time, there often has been a specific /preferred/ diminuitive form of a given name in English, and this preferred for has changed over time. For example, with the example of "Elizabeth", in the past the preferred form of this has been "Betsy", "Betty", "Beth", "Lizzie", "Eliza", and so on, at different points in time, but currently is "Liz", even though people who have been generally known by those other diminuitive forms will still be known by them, even though people will generally not be named today with such forms, in most cases.
Sander   Saturday, April 09, 2005, 07:54 GMT
=>Sander,

I think some diminutive forms of English names came about as rhymes for other diminutive forms: William --> Will, Bill; Margaret --> Meg, Peg.<=

Strange,because in the Netherlands all the "old" names are (except for the really really old dutch ones ,jan,kees) derived from the names of the 17th century...

Like this one:

Cornelis,

Cock, Cor, Cornelius, Cors, Cees, Kees, Kille, Knelis, Kors, Krelis, Nelis, Nelle,NielsCornelia, Cocky, Corrie, Kee, Keetje, Kete, Kornelia, Lia, Neel, Nel, Nele, Nelia, Nellie, Nelly.

Does english have it the same way?