The rhotic "R" in England

How widespread is the rhotic "R" in England? I was listening to a recording of a rhotic English English speaker and it was amusing to hear how un-English he sounded (different from all the other english accents I've ever heard).

http://www.antimoon.com/forum/posts/6939.htm

The thread that ken provided the link to does discuss the rhotic "R" in English accents a bit. However, that thread never answered the initial question of the thread, which was whether the intrusive R* was a feature only of non-rhotic accents, or whether it is also used in rhotic accents in England.

For an explanation of the intrusive R:

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19981211

Interesting link Deborah. The insertion of an intrusive (or euphonic ?) [r] between two phonic vowels regardless word boundaries is something that might get formalised (in the dialects concerned) over time.

That's what happened in French with euphonic [t] except the 'intrusive' [t] is now compulsory in speech and writing and is written <-t->.

*<A il parlé> = *[ailparle] = En <did he talk> is impossible.
Fr <A-t-il parlé> = Fr *[atilparle] = En <did he talk> is mandatory.

Greg, I always wondered about that stray [t] (but not enough to look it up). Something I find interesting about the intrusive/euphonic [r] is that people who use it don't necessarily realize it. I mentioned to someone from England that I've heard people from Brooklyn do the same thing, and he had no idead what I was talking about. So I explained it, and he couldn't believe he did that. I had to record him to convince him.

Deborah : what you say is fascinating - I mean that people are sometimes unaware of their actual speech realisation. I myself never paid attention the [r] because I was pavlovised to think there wasn't any. Now I'll do my best to listen to - not hear - how Anglophones actually pronounce this 'mysterious' [r].

Erratum to the post above Deborah's :

*<A il parlé> = *[ailparle] = En <did he talk> is impossible.
Fr <A-t-il parlé> = Fr [atilparle] = En <did he talk> is mandatory.

I first became aware of it in the 196_(?) movie of "Dr. Zhivago". Some line in it had the name "Lara" followed by a word starting with a vowel, and Lara became "Larer".

I can pinpoint an example for you to hear. I recently rewatched a lot of James Bond movies and noticed that Timothy Dalton uses the intrusive R. In "Licence To Kill", Felix Leiter and his wife, Della, give Bond a cigarette lighter, and Bond reads the inscription, which is "To James from Della and Felix". Dalton reads it as "Dellerand Felix". He also tends to roll his Rs when they occur between vowels, and I think he rolled that intrusive R, but I'm not sure.

Yeah, in my experience people with intrusive "r" usually have no idea at all that they do it, because it's so natural for them. I pointed it out to a British friend and, similar to Deborah's story, he found it incredible that he put an "r" in a phrase like "the tuna is," altho it was very noticeable to me, sounding like "the tuner is."

Intrusive Rs also exist in some American accents. For some reason it's somewhat stigamatized when an American speaks that way, but it isn't when it comes out of the mouth of a Briton. Odd, isn't it?

I don't believe I've met any Americans with intrusive "r" but I have very little contact with nonrhotic American dialects, as they are virtually unheard of here in California. I have heard recordings of nonrhotic American speech, tho, and there were definitely some cases of intrusive "r." The most famous example I can think of is probably president JFK's speech, which is lampooned in a Simpson's episode where he appears to Lisa, calling her "Liserr" :)

It sounds stupid coming out of the mouth of someone from Britain, too.

I think written 'r' should be pronounced, and no 'r' should be pronounced where none exists in writing. That's how most native English speakers around the world do it.

I wasn't aware it was stigmatized in American accents, but if it is, then it might be because it's less prevalent than in English accents. (I'm assuming it's not stigmatized in England, since I've heard it often.)

I just read that it IS highly stigmatized in England. Well, although it sounds "different" to me, it's never sounded stupid. The first time I heard it, I realized why it was used, and it made sense. The only people I've heard use it in the US were from New York City, Jewish, and my age (54) or older. I have heard more Americans use the final inserted R, though.

"I think written 'r' should be pronounced, and no 'r' should be pronounced where none exists in writing. That's how most native English speakers around the world do it."

Oh? So are we now supposed to pronounce:

"through" as "thruff"?

"knight" as "kanigt"?

"writing" as "wuhritting"?

What about all those letters that do exist in writing but we DON'T pronounce?

Quote-''"I think written 'r' should be pronounced, and no 'r' should be pronounced where none exists in writing. That's how most native English speakers around the world do it."

Oh? So are we now supposed to pronounce:

"through" as "thruff"?

"knight" as "kanigt"?

"writing" as "wuhritting"?

''What about all those letters that do exist in writing but we DON'T pronounce?''

Those are a totally different case, because no one pronounces the ''gh'' in ''through'', the ''k'' and the ''gh'' in ''knight'' and the ''w'' in ''writing''.