Problems encountered obtaining an accent

andrew in costa rica   Saturday, April 30, 2005, 06:07 GMT
"I do hang out with Americans a lot, but I think that the time I spend around local people negates all that in a way." and "......because speaking to them in this fake, forced, unauthentic kind of accent (which is how anyone would start out when practicing a new accent) would, for lack of a better term, make you look stupid....."

HWC - Honestly, I am not sure if I understand exactly what you want to accomplish.

So, do you want to keep a Singaporean accent when you speak to your fellow countrymen and effect a Standard American Accent when you talk to non-Singaporeans? Or do you simply want to adopt a Standard American Accent and abandon your (current) natural accent - assuming you'll master it one day?

I speak a hybrid accent of Cantonese/RP/American due to where I grew up (HKG) and where I went to college and worked for the last 16 years (USA). I have no intention whatsoever to lose my accent, though I do make an effort to speak in a clear fashion to make myself easily understood. My accent is a big part of my identity and I make little effort to approximate Standard American Accent. Few people complain and most people find the combination interesting, and even somewhat 'charming'.

Having said all these, you may want to get this booklet (and 3 CDs) entitled "Improve Your American English Accent" by Charlsie Childs. Don't worry (and don't be offended) that the author refers to you as a non-native speaker throughout the course. You are trying to learn a foreign accent, as such, you are a non-native speaker of American English. After you learn the American accent signatures - vowels, consonants, linking, contractions, weak forms, glottal stops, intonations, etc. - you can practice with your American friends to see how you progress and improve from there. But then, what you are going to do when you speak with your Singaporean friends? I am curious.
HWC   Saturday, April 30, 2005, 09:09 GMT
andrew from costa rica - hey, thanks for reading through all that stuff, and thanks for trying to understand what the $#(*$#$ I was talking about... like I said, incoherent ;)

"So, do you want to keep a Singaporean accent when you speak to your fellow countrymen and effect a Standard American Accent when you talk to non-Singaporeans? Or do you simply want to adopt a Standard American Accent and abandon your (current) natural accent - assuming you'll master it one day?" (with reference back to the part of my previous post that you quoted)

Okay, I'll try to clear it up - you quoted me saying "because speaking to them in this fake, forced, unauthentic kind of accent (which is how anyone would start out when practicing a new accent) would, for lack of a better term, make you look stupid....." This was part of a longer sentence. THe entire sentence was that I don't really have practice opportunities like other foreigners living in the US would have, because I'm surrounded a lot by local people who don't speak in a US accent. So when I said that part (which you quoted) I meant that in the context of practice, speaking in a fake accent (and practically anyone who tries to put on an american accent spontaneously whether in the context of practice or not will sound fake too) would make you look kinda stupid.

So I meant that I'm not exposed to a lot of opportunities to practice. When and if I adopt an American accent fluently to the point where it doesn't sound fake, the entire looking-stupid image, of course, would go with my old accent. You following me here? =D

The two options you mentioned are perfectly fine with me, whether it's entirely abandoning my old accent and adopting an American accent, or being able to alternate between the two - the point is, as long as I get an actual American accent, I don't really care whether I let go of my old one or not, although having the ability to switch between two different accents WOULD be kinda cool ;)

"I speak a hybrid accent of Cantonese/RP/American due to where I grew up (HKG) and where I went to college and worked for the last 16 years (USA). I have no intention whatsoever to lose my accent, though I do make an effort to speak in a clear fashion to make myself easily understood. My accent is a big part of my identity and I make little effort to approximate Standard American Accent. Few people complain and most people find the combination interesting, and even somewhat 'charming'."

Your accent is (like you said) a mix of Cantonese, RP (I have no idea what this is) and American, and that's entirely cool. I find mixed accents interesting, and lots of people do - your hybrid accent comprises of elements from an American accent, while my local accent is just plain-out flat and not-nice (yeah, I'm running out of words to use off the top of my head now =/). Heck, forget the entire idea of adopting an entirely American accent for a moment. I'd even be fine if if I was left with a local accent that is punctuated/consists of various aspects from the American accent - the combination would be (like you put it) "interesting" too.

So there ya have it - the condensed version: I don't mind: 1.) adopting an entirely American accent and letting go of my current accent, 2.) obtaining an entirely American accent but still have the ability to alternate and switch to my current one, or 3.) retain my local accent but have distinct, notable and definitely authentic-sounding elements from the American accent... you know, something like foreigners who go to the US to study for a long time, and get this whole diluted-sounding but unforced and genuine American accent that doesn't sound really warped, I.E someone like you, I'd presume ;)

And thanks for the recommendation. Actually, I DID pick up a copy of an American accent program by Ann Cook or a name along those lines - it was the least expensive program I could find (yeah, I'm a cheap bastard =D). If you (or anyone else) has got that program, how effective do you find it? I haven't really put much time into studying it yet, although I plan to do so soon. I'll definitely look into your recommendation too, andrew, and thanks a TON for your help (and all other future help).

"But then, what you are going to do when you speak with your Singaporean friends? I am curious."

Either I speak to them in my local accent which I retain, or I speak to them in an American accent that doesn't sound really fake (which would subsequently make me look dumb).

An additional note regarding that: if any of you have ever been to Singapore, you know how exaggerated a Singaporean accent is (or can be). The fact is, a LOT of Singaporeans try to pull off sounding American, and everything, and I mean EVERYTHING comes out sounding really distorted. It sounds so bad it's become a really embarrassing known fact nation-wide, and so taking that into account, for those people who geniunely want to obtain an American accent and sound forced in their speech patterns when they practice talking to other locals will really look stupid. Because I'm not purely Singaporean, my local accent isn't half as bad/exaggerated as most of them, but I definitely don't want to have an accent that sounds totally fake. That's really important. Come to think of it, no one does either... just that some of them here don't realise it *insertplainfacehere*

I really need to learn how to summarise and how to make short posts. Yikes.
newborn   Saturday, April 30, 2005, 09:22 GMT
you have to practice and to be motivated more
HWC   Saturday, April 30, 2005, 09:30 GMT
newborn, I don't know if you read the posts I made - but my problem isn't with practicing and being motivated, trust me, I am. My problem lies within the methodology used.

*note: for the rest of you guys, read what I typed 2 posts above this instead

C.
HWC   Sunday, May 01, 2005, 05:48 GMT
uh... I'm assuming this hasn't been replied because everyone's taking advantage of labor day, right? ;)
Louis   Sunday, May 01, 2005, 17:10 GMT
For god's sake, HWC, why the hell do you want to adopt an american accent? Our accent is just fine, isn't it?

You must be one of the irritating few here who pronounce the last letter of the alphabet as "zee" instead of "zed" and who probably goes around speaking in a pretentious sort of accent that is "neither here nor there".

Take pride in the way we speak and do not get influenced by all those programmes you watch on TV.
Louis   Sunday, May 01, 2005, 17:11 GMT
And you must realise that in Singapore, it's officially known as Labour Day, not Labour day.

Check our calendar of public holidays.
HWC   Sunday, May 01, 2005, 18:07 GMT
You obviously didn't read my previous posts/get my point, at all.

"Our accent is just fine, isn't it?" - that's subjective, and to you, it is. I'm entirely different from you.

"You must be one of the irritating few here who pronounce the last letter of the alphabet as "zee" instead of "zed"

Yes, I do, and I have pronounced "z" as "zee" since I was small. It's hardly something that I force out just because I "want to sound american" - it's a pronunciation that I've grown up with since young. Irritating? Hardly, unless you're one of those guys who gets easily riled up by seeing old people dance to the YMCA beat on TV or something.

"and who probably goes around speaking in a pretentious sort of accent that is "neither here nor there"

See, you just didn't read what I've been discussing before this. I don't speak in any "pretentious sort of accent", and I clearly acknowledge how stupid a fake accent sounds, and you'd have realised this if you went through my previous posts. My accent isn't distinctly local either - if you even read through some of the previous stuff, I'm not pure Singaporean. My accent may/may not sound (as you put it) "neither here nor there", and if that was the case, (again, like I previously mentioned) most of my friends are non-local, and I naturally pick up some stuff from them - it just doesn't come out as "authentic" (technically) as it should sound because I'm also exposed to the local crowd a lot, and so that may create the entire "neither-here-nor-there" accent, if I had one in the first place.

"Take pride in the way we speak and do not get influenced by all those programmes you watch on TV"

This isn't about media influence, or anything remotely near there. I have no qualms about the local accent even though I find it weird. It just isn't something that I find desirable, personally.

"And you must realise that in Singapore, it's officially known as Labour Day, not Labour day.

Check our calendar of public holidays."

I have no idea what you meant by this. In case you meant "it's officially known as Labour Day, not LABOR day" (see what I mean when I say I'm a grammar nazi?), again, I've been spelling "labor" as "labor" since I grew up. The same goes with "favorite", "color", whatever. It's the way I've been spelling stuff from young and nothing to do with all this - what, do I HAVE to change and start spelling everything UK-style? :|

Uh, yeah, so any other help/suggestions?
american nic   Sunday, May 01, 2005, 18:16 GMT
Can you upload a sample of your accent somewhere? I'd be interested in hearing it.
HWC   Sunday, May 01, 2005, 18:50 GMT
What I meant, HWC, is that you use a hodgepodge of colloquial expressions that don't obviously fit any type of American or British English, and you transcribe spoken English phrases as they might be pronounced casually, whereas most native speakers don't transcribe spoken pronunciations phonetically.

I've seen this before among Asians who are trying very hard to sound casual and carefree in English, with lots of written "gonna" and "wanna" and "ya" in contexts where natives would never write this way.
Louis   Tuesday, May 03, 2005, 13:06 GMT
Actually, I am not old. I am just 20.

Granted, you're not wholly Singaporean. I've not read that point before, but since you've acknowledged otherwise, I suppose that's forgivable.

I am not advocating British English, but rather a form of English that has always been spoken and written since the heydays of the Straits Settlements. It just so coincidentally happens that Singapore English is largely modelled after British English. I am not propogating the Queen's English in anyway.

I still do feel that attempting to deviate from the norm is not only spurious, but smacks of being very impressionable.

Lastly, I feel that american accented English isn't very pretty. In fact, the southern drawl always seems rather lethargic to me. The spellings are horribly inconsistent (Why "aluminum" instead of "aluminium"?) and if you ever have an opportunity to do your A levels in Singapore, I'd wager that your General Paper marks would be far from desirable.
Gabe   Tuesday, May 03, 2005, 13:32 GMT
Aluminum is pronounced "uh-loo-mi-num" so it's consistent.

And all I can suggest is getting one of those programs like Rosetta Stone, say, that records your voice and compares it to a native accent. It measures your tone, and other stuff and graphs it for you.

Apparently, though I've never tried it, memorizing speech from CD's or tapes in the accent that you want, and then replaying the CD's over and over and speaking along with them works pretty well too.