Analytic vs. Synthetic?

Xie   Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:01 pm GMT
That was a slip of the hands.

I "confess" to total ignorance about this. I've yet to see a foreign learner who doesn't mess up written Chinese. Many of them get the word order wrong, and even more write very clumsily. Their written language is so heavily European and they don't know how to make things short. The Chinese are used to children talk and don't know complicated words (even those in Chinese), and they don't use as many prepositions as you do...so what's the point of writing lengthy stuff, only to make sure you don't get the discourse kaput.... no, we're really very frugal.

So, there you are, I think my language is too simple to use but too difficult in the eyes of many to speak of. By analytic everything is reduced to intrinsic meanings only and, at least as I can see, native speakers tend to be very frugal...
null   Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:13 pm GMT
people think chinese has too many homonyms mainly because they are messing up Chinese characters with Chinese words,there are many times more Chinese words than there are characters as most Chinese words are made up of two or more different characters.

yes, many of these single-syllable morphemes ( zì, 字 in Chinese) can stand alone as individual words, they more often than not form multi-syllabic compounds, known as cí (词/詞), which more closely resembles the traditional Western notion of a word. A Chinese cí (“word”) can consist of more than one character-morpheme, usually two, but there can be three or more.
Leeds   Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:20 pm GMT
>>>>people think chinese has too many homonyms mainly because they are messing up Chinese characters with Chinese words<<<<

or perhaps they have no clue about the characters at all:

for example:

the syllable 'li' actully represents the follwing characters:


丽 例 俐 俚 俪 傈 儮 儷 兣 凓 刕 利 剓 剺 劙 力 励 勵 历 厉 厘 厤 厯 厲 叓 吏 呖 哩 唎 唳 喱 嚟 嚦 囄 囇 坜 塛 壢 娌 娳 婯 嫠 孋 孷 屴 岦 峛 峢 峲 巁 廲 悝 悡 悧 悷 慄 戻 戾 捩 搮 摛 擽 攊 攡 攦 攭 斄 暦 曆 曞 朸 李 杝 枥 栃 栎 栗 栛 栵 梨 梩 梸 棃 棙 樆 檪 櫔 櫟 櫪 欐 欚 歴 歷 氂 沥 沴 泣 浬 浰 涖 淚 溧 漓 漦 澧 濼 濿 瀝 灑 灕 爄 爏 牦 犁 犂 犛 犡 狸 猁 珕 珞 理 琍 瑮 璃 瓅 瓈 瓑 瓥 甅 疠 疬 痢 癘 癧 皪 盠 盭 睙 睝 矋 砅 砬 砺 砾 硌 磿 礪 礫 礰 礼 禮 禲 离 秜 秝 穲 立 竰 笠 筣 篥 篱 籬 类 粍 粒 粚 粝 粴 糎 糲 綟 縭 纅 纚 缡 罹 翮 聢 脷 艃 苈 苙 茘 荔 荲 莅 莉 菞 蒚 蒞 蓠 蔾 薶 藜 藶 蘺 蚸 蛎 蛠 蜊 蜧 蝕 蝷 蟍 蟸 蠇 蠡 蠣 蠫 裏 裡 褵 觻 詈 謧 讈 豊 貍 赲 跞 躒 轢 轣 轹 迣 逦 邌 邐 郦 酈 酾 醨 醴 釃 里 釐 鉝 鋫 鋰 錅 錺 鎘 鏫 鑗 鑠 锂 镉 隶 隷 隸 離 雳 雴 霾 靂 靋 類 颯 騹 驪 骊 髦 鬁 鬲 魞 鯉 鯏 鯐 鯬 鱧 鱱 鱳 鱺 鲡 鲤 鳢 鳨 鴗 鵆 鵹 鷅 鷑 鸝 鹂 麗 麜 黎 黐 黧 㟳 㠟 㠣 㡂 㑦 㒧 㒿 㓯 㔏 㕸 㗚 㘑 㤡 㤦 㥎 㦒 㧰 㬏 㮚 㯤 㰀 㰚 㱹 㴃 㴝 㷰 㷴 㸚 㹈 㺡 㻎 㻺 㼖 㽁 㽝 㾐 㾖 㿛 㿨 䁻 䃯 䄜 䅄 䅻 䇐 䉫 䊍 䊪 䋥 䍠 䍥 䍦 䍽 䓞 䔁 䔆 䔉 䔣 䔧 䕻 䖥 䖽 䖿 䗍 䗶 䘈 䙰 䚏 䚕 䟏 䟐 䡃 䣓 䣫 䤙 䤚 䥶 䧉 䬅 䬆 䮋 䮥 䰛 䰜 䱘 䲞 䴄 䴡 䴻 䵓 䵩 䶘

no wonder 'li' has so many different meanings,lol �� �� �� �� �� �� �� �� �� �� �� �� �� �� �� �� �� �� �� ��
Guest   Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:57 pm GMT
What about a list of synthetic and analytic languages? Wher can I find it?
Guest   Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:58 pm GMT
Brazilian Portuguese is more analytic compared to Continental Portuguese:


Give it to me:

BP: Dá isso para mim.
CP: Dá-mo.


I will tell him that:

BP: Eu vou falar isso para ele.
CP: Vou dizer-lho.


They took you (all) to the beach.

BP: Eles levaram vocês na praia.
CP: Levaram-vos à praia.
Guest   Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:35 pm GMT
Does anyone have any idea what the mosy highly synthetic language of them all is?
null   Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:10 am GMT
<<< while words of synthetic languages that look slim even with those forms could be very clumsy in analytic languages (compare polyglottery [where many typically inflected European languages have one-word translation] and 能/可以說多種/多國語言, polyglot and 能/可以說多種/多國語言的人. >>>

this is not a good example, it has nothing to do with the analytic vs. aynthetic topic.

polyglot is one of the few English words that has no Chinese equivalents.

let's see how clumsy English(and other western language) could be:

香妃鸡(Steamed chicken with saltedsauce)
糖醋鸡块(Chicken in sweet and sour sauce)
三杯鸡翼(Chicken wings in three cups sauce)
赛海蜇拌火鸭丝(Shredded roast deck with wnow fungus)
杂菜拌鸭脷(Duck tongues with assorted Vegetables)
卤炸乳鸽(Deep-frie pigeon in spiced sauce)
蜜糖子姜鸡(Honey chicken with ginger shoors)
苹果咖喱鸡(Curry chicken with apple)
百花凤翼(stuffed chicken wings with shrimp paste)
香荽鸭翼(Duck wings with coriander)
陈皮鸭脷(Fried duck tongues with tangerine peel)

many words in Chinese are phrases in English,Chinese is one of the most 'compact' languages in the world.

>>>Does anyone have any idea what the mosy highly synthetic language of them all is? <<<

my guess is Hungarian(a super hard language).
Xie   Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:16 am GMT
But if you have a word for it, why not? Newspeak doesn't exist.

I'm simply pointing out the nature of 'separate' and 'fused' morphemes. You're simply listing loads of useless examples that I can't even understand personally. Why bother with the tons of synonyms? This is like pasting a whole bunch of Russian declension tables (and those of whichever that have declensions) and say they're difficult with all that stuff.

You must have been very diligent to learn dozens of synonyms of moon, but to my knowledge all I know is one word 月亮 in Chinese. Tell an average 5-year-old, a university student, a housewife, an office lady, a university professor, a retired elderly person about all those flowery words, and you'd look as if you were Freddy Krueger.
null   Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:47 am GMT
Chinese synonyms vs. Russian declensions?

another good example,i guess?
Guest   Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:16 am GMT
No, Russian declensions are basic and can be mastered in a matter of days.
Guest   Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:00 pm GMT
You need a magnifying glass to decipher those Chinese characters, that's way so many Chinese people are short sighted.
Guest   Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:18 pm GMT
<You need a magnifying glass<
No, you need Ctrl and a wheel.
Guest   Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:39 pm GMT
<<No, you need Ctrl and a wheel. >>

Even with magnification, they still look like snowflakes to me -- no two the same.
Guest   Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:30 pm GMT
''Ethnicity and race

The prevalence of myopia has been reported as high as 70-90% in some Asian countries. '' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myopia


One can trace it to pictograms.
Guest   Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:33 pm GMT
Perhaps the Chinese have that eyes shape because of pictograms. What do you think?