Why do the British pronounce the "h" in "herb" but Americans don't? Does anyone know how that difference came about?
Herb
Herb is standard American English; a 1993 pronunciation survey, ~90% of Americans said herb without the 'h'. (The proper name, Herb, keeps it pronouced.)
Herb is a fine example of a type of linguistic conservatism found in American English. Until the sixteenth century the word was usually spelled "erb"-- it was a French word, who didn't say the "h" either. Right up until to the nineteenth century, long after the 'h' had been added due to further icky French influence, that was also the way it was said. "erb."
Seventeenth- and eighteenth-century colonists toward the Americas took their pronounciation with them. During the nineteenth century, the British people started to sound the first letter, in a "spelling pronunciation." So, the Americans are saying it the old fashioned way, and the Brits are playing around with their new-fangled words.
So, Eddie Izzard wasn't off saying that "We say herb like that because there's a fuckin' 'H' in it."
Now you know.
Herb is a fine example of a type of linguistic conservatism found in American English. Until the sixteenth century the word was usually spelled "erb"-- it was a French word, who didn't say the "h" either. Right up until to the nineteenth century, long after the 'h' had been added due to further icky French influence, that was also the way it was said. "erb."
Seventeenth- and eighteenth-century colonists toward the Americas took their pronounciation with them. During the nineteenth century, the British people started to sound the first letter, in a "spelling pronunciation." So, the Americans are saying it the old fashioned way, and the Brits are playing around with their new-fangled words.
So, Eddie Izzard wasn't off saying that "We say herb like that because there's a fuckin' 'H' in it."
Now you know.
Thanks, Adam. I had guessed it had something to do with a pronunciation change in Britain.
Yes, much like "hour" or "honest," "herb" was a word that was not traditionally pronounced with /h/ in English, as it came into English /h/ less. The spelling is akin to orthographical "b" in "debt." It was never pronounced with /b/ in English since it came from Old French "dette."
However, in the 18th and especially 19th centuries in Britain /h/ became dropped in environments where it did normally exist in English, and especially the burgeoning middle class became conscious of the stigma attached with /h/ dropping. Since this applied to the vast majority of words with orthographical "h" people overapplied and the spelling pronunciation giving /h/ to "herb" was born (don't ask why it never caught on with "hour" or "honest"--perhaps they were more common in speech so the original form prevailed).
This stigmatization of /h/ dropping never really occurred in North America because there haven't been dialects in NAE on a wide scale with /h/ dropping, so naturally people weren't conscious of a phenomenon that didn't exist, so the older British pronunciation of "herb" without /h/ has survived in North America, especially in the US. Some Canadians do have /h/ there as a more recent import from Britain.
However, in the 18th and especially 19th centuries in Britain /h/ became dropped in environments where it did normally exist in English, and especially the burgeoning middle class became conscious of the stigma attached with /h/ dropping. Since this applied to the vast majority of words with orthographical "h" people overapplied and the spelling pronunciation giving /h/ to "herb" was born (don't ask why it never caught on with "hour" or "honest"--perhaps they were more common in speech so the original form prevailed).
This stigmatization of /h/ dropping never really occurred in North America because there haven't been dialects in NAE on a wide scale with /h/ dropping, so naturally people weren't conscious of a phenomenon that didn't exist, so the older British pronunciation of "herb" without /h/ has survived in North America, especially in the US. Some Canadians do have /h/ there as a more recent import from Britain.
Hmm. I thought they added the 'h' because it originally came from the Latin word herba, ae.
<<Hmm. I thought they added the 'h' because it originally came from the Latin word herba, ae.>>
That's why it was added in spelling even tho it had never been pronounced in English because by the time English acquired the words via Norman Old French, Old French had lost /h/. The word came into English as [erb@], and by Early Modern English the pronunciation had evolved to [3`b]. [3`b] is still the pronunciation in America but due to the spelling pronunciation (and the dropping of rhotacism) it's [h3:b] in British English now.
That's why it was added in spelling even tho it had never been pronounced in English because by the time English acquired the words via Norman Old French, Old French had lost /h/. The word came into English as [erb@], and by Early Modern English the pronunciation had evolved to [3`b]. [3`b] is still the pronunciation in America but due to the spelling pronunciation (and the dropping of rhotacism) it's [h3:b] in British English now.
One thing that I've wondered about is whether h-dropping dialects maintain the "aspirate h"-"mute h" distinction like in French. In other words, do h-droppers usually say "a 'orse", preserving the historic "aitchiness" of the word "horse", or would they just treat it like any other word that begins with a vowel and say "an 'orse"?
Generally only for words of Germanic origin do French speakers maintain that distinction. Not so for Latinates. Compare "la hache" and "l'habitude".
Yes, I'm familiar with the rules in French, but Lazar and I are interested in how it works for /h/ dropping dialects in English.
I pronounce them as follows:
herb /3`:b/
hour /{U@`/
honest /AsIst/
Kirk, I've heard that in some areas of the US they drop h's in words like human, humor. I pronounce them ["Cu:m@n] and ["Cu:m@`], but I've heard people from the h-dropping areas say ["ju:m@n] and ["ju:m@`].
herb /3`:b/
hour /{U@`/
honest /AsIst/
Kirk, I've heard that in some areas of the US they drop h's in words like human, humor. I pronounce them ["Cu:m@n] and ["Cu:m@`], but I've heard people from the h-dropping areas say ["ju:m@n] and ["ju:m@`].
<<One thing that I've wondered about is whether h-dropping dialects maintain the "aspirate h"-"mute h" distinction like in French. In other words, do h-droppers usually say "a 'orse", preserving the historic "aitchiness" of the word "horse", or would they just treat it like any other word that begins with a vowel and say "an 'orse"? >>
Personally, I would say 'an 'orse'. (I drop a lot of my aitches!) :-)
Personally, I would say 'an 'orse'. (I drop a lot of my aitches!) :-)
"Hotel" is another word that is a wee bit dodgy in this respect. Practically everybody pronounces the initial "h" now but at one time they didn't, apparently. "We stayed at a very nice hotel" rather than 'otel. Using the indefinite article does produce a bit of a problem as it requires quite some aspiration to say "We stopped the night at a hotel". Very often you see it written as "an hotel" in which case the aspiration ceases as the "h" vanishes....."an 'otel". I find the latter is easier to say.
Kirk: <i>The word came into English as [erb@], and by Early Modern English the pronunciation had evolved to [3`b]. [3`b] is still the pronunciation in America but due to the spelling pronunciation (and the dropping of rhotacism) it's [h3:b] in British English now.</i>
Not so! Not so! The word came into English as /ɛrbə/ (that's /Erb@/). This error isn't so heinous as English had no /e/ at the time, distinguishing /eː/ (feed) /ɛː/ (feat) /ɛ/ (fed).
Towards the end of Early Modern English the pronunciation had evolved to /ərb/! (or /ɜrb/, as you prefer). It was most definitely not the rhoticised [ɜ`b] that you indicate! Rhoticising the vowel was a later American and (I believe) Irish phenomenon. There are still rhotic speakers alive today who pronounce the vowel and consonant separately. (In any case, I'm pretty sure the fern/fir/fur merger was later than "by Early Modern English", so that in earliest EMnE it was actually still /ɛrb/.)
Lastly, it's most definitely not [h3:b] in British English now. It's /hɜːb/ in English English (with the phonetic realisation varying between dialects). The North Irish, Scottish, Welsh and even south-west English (I think) still pronounce the R. Mind, I'm not a Brit so I shouldn't care so much about that, but they seem to if anyone misspeaks :)
Not so! Not so! The word came into English as /ɛrbə/ (that's /Erb@/). This error isn't so heinous as English had no /e/ at the time, distinguishing /eː/ (feed) /ɛː/ (feat) /ɛ/ (fed).
Towards the end of Early Modern English the pronunciation had evolved to /ərb/! (or /ɜrb/, as you prefer). It was most definitely not the rhoticised [ɜ`b] that you indicate! Rhoticising the vowel was a later American and (I believe) Irish phenomenon. There are still rhotic speakers alive today who pronounce the vowel and consonant separately. (In any case, I'm pretty sure the fern/fir/fur merger was later than "by Early Modern English", so that in earliest EMnE it was actually still /ɛrb/.)
Lastly, it's most definitely not [h3:b] in British English now. It's /hɜːb/ in English English (with the phonetic realisation varying between dialects). The North Irish, Scottish, Welsh and even south-west English (I think) still pronounce the R. Mind, I'm not a Brit so I shouldn't care so much about that, but they seem to if anyone misspeaks :)