I've never been to South America, but I have heard from people who have that Brazil is much nicer than the Spanish-speaking countries, and more cosmopolitan/advanced.
Are Portuguese and Brazilian the same language?
Cuba is a highly developed country. I would say Cuba has higher development than Italy. Also, Brazil is more developed than Russia (Moscow, St. Peterspurg - not backwaters).
The phonetic differences between brazilian portuguese and continental portuguese are indeed profound, but people are exagerating a bit; there is no significant language barrier between the two forms. For the most part, speakers of portuguese anywhere in the world can communicate without difficulty.
<<However they hate the Portuguese for being enslaved by them. (Please note that Brazilians are not genetically from Portuguese descent) - they are a mixture of Blacks and very few Pure white (i am not being racist) the whites are from divers European countries (Italy, Germany, Poland, etc) >>
Huh?? The large majority of Brazilians are of at least partial portuguese ancestry, and contrary to popular belief more than 50% of population is white.
Huh?? The large majority of Brazilians are of at least partial portuguese ancestry, and contrary to popular belief more than 50% of population is white.
I was wrong. Cuba is considered a Second World country. This classification system actually has less to do with how well an economy is doing or physical development qualities, but it's more a classification system in which the First World is capitalist, Second World is communist, and Third World consisted largely of undeveloped economies.
Typically scholars refer to the First World and much of the Second World nations as "developed" with the others being either "developing" or "underdeveloped."
Typically scholars refer to the First World and much of the Second World nations as "developed" with the others being either "developing" or "underdeveloped."
<<Brazilian Portuguese was influenced by many illiterate Brazilians (only 70% can read and write) as a result Brazilian Portuguese has a bad grammar.>>
The portuguese language itself was developed by illiterate Europeans (back when less than 10% could read or write); It was one of the vulgar vernakulars of the uneducated masses, and has horrible grammar compared to its linguistic predecessor.
<< please lets dont trash the European languages that evolved from Latin, and compare them with some Colonial Creole versions>>
I don't understand how you make the distinction between the way European languages "evolved from Latin" (which is euphemistic way to put it), vs. the way colonial "creole" languages develop.
The portuguese language itself was developed by illiterate Europeans (back when less than 10% could read or write); It was one of the vulgar vernakulars of the uneducated masses, and has horrible grammar compared to its linguistic predecessor.
<< please lets dont trash the European languages that evolved from Latin, and compare them with some Colonial Creole versions>>
I don't understand how you make the distinction between the way European languages "evolved from Latin" (which is euphemistic way to put it), vs. the way colonial "creole" languages develop.
Europeans colonised the world - hence there is a large variety of European colonial languages all over the world.
Portuguese - evolved from Vulgar Latin.
Brazilian - evolved from Vulgar Portuguese.
European Portuguese is the classical version.
Brazilian is just an ARCHAIC VULGAR PORTUGUESE.
Same for the Spanish varieties:
Spanish (Castilian ) evolved from Vulgar Latin.
South American varieties evolved from Vulgar Spanish.
European Spanish is the classical version.
Portuguese - evolved from Vulgar Latin.
Brazilian - evolved from Vulgar Portuguese.
European Portuguese is the classical version.
Brazilian is just an ARCHAIC VULGAR PORTUGUESE.
Same for the Spanish varieties:
Spanish (Castilian ) evolved from Vulgar Latin.
South American varieties evolved from Vulgar Spanish.
European Spanish is the classical version.
Hey folks!!! Let's stop attacking Brazilians or Portuguese people and talk about the language.
If one calls Brazilian Portuguese creole that also means that English spoken in the US or Australia or French spoken in Quebec is also a creole.
Back to the topic, European Portuguese uses different vocabulary ("Comboio" instead of TREM, "Autocarro" instead of "ônibus", "Atendente de mesa" instead of "garçom" , "gajo" instead of "rapaz", "rapariga" instead of young woman", "giro" instead of "legal" and the list goes on) grammar (Gerund is expressed by " Estou a___") and phonetics which is difficult to understand because middle "e"s among consonants are dropped . It's no wonder that Brazilians don't understand those differences, specially because there are no opportunities to listen to European Portuguese (Not in Rio de Janeiro). Spanish is pronounced clearly, i.e., it is possible to hear ALL words and there aren't as many words from French like in European Portuguese.
It's funny to see people saying that European Portuguese is more traditional than Brazilian Portuguese when Portugal was heavily influenced by France.
We can see such examples in words like:
"Pequeno almoço" (petit déjeuner), "Ecrã", "Feérico",etc...
Also, in 1808 the imperial family moved to Rio de Janeiro to escape Napoleon, which gave Rio de Janeiro dialect a closer to European Portuguese .
Since I entered college in 1991 I heard about calling Portuguese spoken in Brazil "Brazilian" and I think it's time that happened because both languages aren't intelligible and that isn't difficult to understand when one realizes that both countries are so distant, there isn't much exchange among Portuguese speaking countries and that countries around Brazil speak Spanish (exception of Suriname, Guyana and French Guyana). Brazilians not only understand South-american Spanish but also European Spanish. I understand TVE news perfectly but have trouble understading RPT. I must confess I was raised with a wrong view of Portuguese people but have NOTHING against them, specially because my name is TOTALLY Portuguese. I really thank the Portuguese for having given me a language which is widespread all over the world(I've met many people from Sri Lanka and India with my surname) and allows me to understand Spanish without problem let alone learning French and Italian much more easily!!!
Muito obrigado!!
If one calls Brazilian Portuguese creole that also means that English spoken in the US or Australia or French spoken in Quebec is also a creole.
Back to the topic, European Portuguese uses different vocabulary ("Comboio" instead of TREM, "Autocarro" instead of "ônibus", "Atendente de mesa" instead of "garçom" , "gajo" instead of "rapaz", "rapariga" instead of young woman", "giro" instead of "legal" and the list goes on) grammar (Gerund is expressed by " Estou a___") and phonetics which is difficult to understand because middle "e"s among consonants are dropped . It's no wonder that Brazilians don't understand those differences, specially because there are no opportunities to listen to European Portuguese (Not in Rio de Janeiro). Spanish is pronounced clearly, i.e., it is possible to hear ALL words and there aren't as many words from French like in European Portuguese.
It's funny to see people saying that European Portuguese is more traditional than Brazilian Portuguese when Portugal was heavily influenced by France.
We can see such examples in words like:
"Pequeno almoço" (petit déjeuner), "Ecrã", "Feérico",etc...
Also, in 1808 the imperial family moved to Rio de Janeiro to escape Napoleon, which gave Rio de Janeiro dialect a closer to European Portuguese .
Since I entered college in 1991 I heard about calling Portuguese spoken in Brazil "Brazilian" and I think it's time that happened because both languages aren't intelligible and that isn't difficult to understand when one realizes that both countries are so distant, there isn't much exchange among Portuguese speaking countries and that countries around Brazil speak Spanish (exception of Suriname, Guyana and French Guyana). Brazilians not only understand South-american Spanish but also European Spanish. I understand TVE news perfectly but have trouble understading RPT. I must confess I was raised with a wrong view of Portuguese people but have NOTHING against them, specially because my name is TOTALLY Portuguese. I really thank the Portuguese for having given me a language which is widespread all over the world(I've met many people from Sri Lanka and India with my surname) and allows me to understand Spanish without problem let alone learning French and Italian much more easily!!!
Muito obrigado!!
<< Spanish is pronounced clearly, i.e., it is possible to hear ALL words and there aren't as many words from French like in European Portuguese. >>
Man, you never heard a Cuban or a Puertorrican.
Man, you never heard a Cuban or a Puertorrican.
<<However they hate the Portuguese for being enslaved by them. (Please note that Brazilians are not genetically from Portuguese descent) - they are a mixture of Blacks and very few Pure white (i am not being racist) the whites are from divers European countries (Italy, Germany, Poland, etc) >>
Guest: This statement is totally wrong because personally I don't hate the Portuguese because they enslaved my ancestors.
As for Brazilians being a mixture of blacks and whites:Wrong again!!!
Brazilians are a mixture of whites, blacks and native Brazilians mainly (My mom is white but has native Brazilians as ancestors as well as blacks. My father was black but his mother was white).
Looking at Brazilians per region, northern Brazil has a higher concentration of native Brazilians, northeast Brazil and southeast Brazil had a bigger African influence because many slaves went to Salvador (Biggest Afro-Brazilian community if Brazil) and Rio de Janeiro (No wonder that the biggest carnival in Brazil is held in Rio de Janeiro). However, the more one goes south Brazil (which is colder), one can see a lot of German, Ukranian, Polish and Italian influence. It's no wonder that there's a German dialect spoken in southern Brazil and called "Brazil-Deutsch".
As you can see race can't be defined so easily in Brazil. I forgot to say that Brazil is the biggest Japanese colony in the world, which means you can feel you're in Tokyo if you go to São Paulo (There are also Chinese and Koreans in "liberdade" neighbourhood). Anyone can be a Brazilian, no matter if he/she is white, black, asian or indian(native Brazilian).
Cheers!!
Guest: This statement is totally wrong because personally I don't hate the Portuguese because they enslaved my ancestors.
As for Brazilians being a mixture of blacks and whites:Wrong again!!!
Brazilians are a mixture of whites, blacks and native Brazilians mainly (My mom is white but has native Brazilians as ancestors as well as blacks. My father was black but his mother was white).
Looking at Brazilians per region, northern Brazil has a higher concentration of native Brazilians, northeast Brazil and southeast Brazil had a bigger African influence because many slaves went to Salvador (Biggest Afro-Brazilian community if Brazil) and Rio de Janeiro (No wonder that the biggest carnival in Brazil is held in Rio de Janeiro). However, the more one goes south Brazil (which is colder), one can see a lot of German, Ukranian, Polish and Italian influence. It's no wonder that there's a German dialect spoken in southern Brazil and called "Brazil-Deutsch".
As you can see race can't be defined so easily in Brazil. I forgot to say that Brazil is the biggest Japanese colony in the world, which means you can feel you're in Tokyo if you go to São Paulo (There are also Chinese and Koreans in "liberdade" neighbourhood). Anyone can be a Brazilian, no matter if he/she is white, black, asian or indian(native Brazilian).
Cheers!!
"Man, you never heard a Cuban or a Puertorrican."
Guest: I've talked to both and had no problem understanding. I have also spoken to people from Peru, Colombia, Paraguai, Uruguai, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Chile, Panama, Mexico (I like the "hijole" attitude), El Salvador and could understand them pretty well (Maybe they weren't using slangs). To be honest I had some difficulties talking to people from Argentina.
Even so, Spanish is much clearer than European Portuguese.
Ciao!!
Guest: I've talked to both and had no problem understanding. I have also spoken to people from Peru, Colombia, Paraguai, Uruguai, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Chile, Panama, Mexico (I like the "hijole" attitude), El Salvador and could understand them pretty well (Maybe they weren't using slangs). To be honest I had some difficulties talking to people from Argentina.
Even so, Spanish is much clearer than European Portuguese.
Ciao!!
I don't see Gisele Bündchen, Adriana Lima or Alessandra Ambrosio speaking some ''creole'' language, or looking either slavelike or Portuguese, all of them speak perfect English, although with an accent (but a cute one).
Alessandra Ambrosio on Alessandra Ambrosio Interview on the Late Night show with Craig Killborn
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z7ynbei75eo
Alessandra Ambrosio on Alessandra Ambrosio Interview on the Late Night show with Craig Killborn
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z7ynbei75eo
Those ladies speak slavelike Portuguese . Appart from that they must have some black bood.
"Portuguese - evolved from Vulgar Latin.
Brazilian - evolved from Vulgar Portuguese.
European Portuguese is the classical version.
Brazilian is just an ARCHAIC VULGAR PORTUGUESE.
Same for the Spanish varieties:
Spanish (Castilian ) evolved from Vulgar Latin.
South American varieties evolved from Vulgar Spanish. "
It's funny how Europeans like to use this argument to say that their language is better than the varieties spoken in South America.
I'm not familiar with the Spanish language but the community of Brazilian Portuguese is about 20 times bigger than European Portuguese and therefore we became the world standard for Portuguese. Due to that the Portuguese have to figure out how Brazilians speak when the opposite isn't true. I lived all my life without having to understand Portuguese people speaking and that ain't likely to change. Bottom line, people might call our language a "creole", "inferior" or whatever they wanna call but Brazil is the 8th biggest economy in the world whereas Portugal is the 34th (Even belonging to the European community) and people will have to learn to deal with that!!
I feel that many Portuguese feel envy because the colony got way bigger than the settler country.
I really love my ancestors but those who insist on looking down on Brazilians should grow up!!
Adeus!!
Brazilian - evolved from Vulgar Portuguese.
European Portuguese is the classical version.
Brazilian is just an ARCHAIC VULGAR PORTUGUESE.
Same for the Spanish varieties:
Spanish (Castilian ) evolved from Vulgar Latin.
South American varieties evolved from Vulgar Spanish. "
It's funny how Europeans like to use this argument to say that their language is better than the varieties spoken in South America.
I'm not familiar with the Spanish language but the community of Brazilian Portuguese is about 20 times bigger than European Portuguese and therefore we became the world standard for Portuguese. Due to that the Portuguese have to figure out how Brazilians speak when the opposite isn't true. I lived all my life without having to understand Portuguese people speaking and that ain't likely to change. Bottom line, people might call our language a "creole", "inferior" or whatever they wanna call but Brazil is the 8th biggest economy in the world whereas Portugal is the 34th (Even belonging to the European community) and people will have to learn to deal with that!!
I feel that many Portuguese feel envy because the colony got way bigger than the settler country.
I really love my ancestors but those who insist on looking down on Brazilians should grow up!!
Adeus!!
the point is that the Portuguese language originated in PORTUGAL and not Brazil. therefore, it is people from Portugal who speak correct Portuguese and Brazil (as far as I can see) speaks a dialect with outside influences. Brazilian Portuguese sounds like it has been influenced by Spanish, as demonstrated in the pronunciation of the numbers;
Onze, doze, treze, catorze, and quinze in Brazilian Portuguese sound almost more like the Spanish numbers once, doce, trece, catorce, quince than the do the continental Portuguese pronunciation. Same with the numbers two (dois), three (três), six (seis), seven (sete), and nine (nove).
Bom dia should be pronounced as such as not as if it's spelled bom gia.
My mother's side of the family is from Madeira, Portugal, and the main differences between Continental Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese (as far as I can see) are in phonology and not so much vocabulary.
I don't want anyone accusing me of thinking Continental Portuguese is better/superior to Brazilian dialects, I'm just trying to make a point that the language originated in Portugal and therefore, their pronunciation is standard while Brazilian Portuguese has outside influences that caused the pronunciations and some vocabulary words to shift away from the original.
Onze, doze, treze, catorze, and quinze in Brazilian Portuguese sound almost more like the Spanish numbers once, doce, trece, catorce, quince than the do the continental Portuguese pronunciation. Same with the numbers two (dois), three (três), six (seis), seven (sete), and nine (nove).
Bom dia should be pronounced as such as not as if it's spelled bom gia.
My mother's side of the family is from Madeira, Portugal, and the main differences between Continental Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese (as far as I can see) are in phonology and not so much vocabulary.
I don't want anyone accusing me of thinking Continental Portuguese is better/superior to Brazilian dialects, I'm just trying to make a point that the language originated in Portugal and therefore, their pronunciation is standard while Brazilian Portuguese has outside influences that caused the pronunciations and some vocabulary words to shift away from the original.