Advice on shadowing for RP

KC   Thu May 22, 2008 4:47 am GMT
Hello, I have read with interest the almost universal opinion that "shadowing" seems to work like a charm. I am interested in the RP accent. Now, the question is: Can you suggest a suitable person to shadow? My criteria is: Most definitely has to be a male modern-day RP, not the ultra-snobbish RP of yore. Also, would you suggest me following scripted play/movie dialogues, or normal unscripted talk. I personally think unscripted shadowing should be preferable. Now, I have been listening to a lot of British Parliament programmes from BBC Radio - I think thats a good place to find modern RP and "decent vocabulary" too. I seem to be leaning towards David Cameron (just on the basis of his way of speaking, no politics involved). Is that a good choice? Any thing you would suggest? Thanks a ton.
Guest   Thu May 22, 2008 4:49 am GMT
WHY ARE YOU SO INTERESTED IN MODERN? SOMETIMES IT IS GOOD TO SPEAK THE LANGUAGE OF YORE.
KC   Thu May 22, 2008 5:11 am GMT
because i dont want to sound like an idiot
Damian in Edinburgh   Thu May 22, 2008 10:27 am GMT
You can listen to the Live, bang on the minute, as it happens, discussions from the home of democracy - the British Parliament at the Palace of Westminster, which is in London, of course. Follow links and you can hear what they are discussing at the minute.. As I type this they are discussing the issue of British Post Office services and foreign investment in Britain.

It goes without saying that you need your audio system switched on! :-)

The Scottish voice you hear at regular intervals is that of the Speaker - Michael Martin, who represents Glasgow North East.

The public gallery, high up above the chamber of the Commons, is open to all (subject to routine security checks) every time the House is in session.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/bbc_parliament/3081534.stm

You will hear English English and regional variants of RP in all its glory! But be prepared for a wide variety of other regional accents from all the 646 Members of Parliament representing constituencies all over the UK. :-)
Damian in Edinburgh   Thu May 22, 2008 10:31 am GMT
This very day 22/05/08 there is a Parliamentary by-election in the constituency of Crewe and Nantwich, down there in Cheshire, in North West England. Gordon Brown can expect to receive quite a shock late tonight when the result shows his Labour Party losing it to the Conservative Party. His dark brown Fife accent will no doubt we just a wee bit spluttery tomorrow.... :-) Serve him right........
Xie   Thu May 22, 2008 2:48 pm GMT
Any advice on shadowing for GA (General American), then?

Sorry, Brits, but I just don't have the money (now that HKD has become insanely cheap because of the depreciating USD) to travel in your country, and I've got bored with my city's pro-British(and American) accents that grave on my ears. They aren't exactly two languages, but at any rate... I'm more into studying in the US some day, and I feel better to speak with a less German accent, so that I could save more t's for my real German and replace them with taps instead...

I'm actually wondering if anyone could name a few voice actors who produce very good audiobooks. I'd definitely use them as models, and even though some of you might doubt whether Frank Muller is one good example (as an American voice actor), I love his voice and so he's one of my models.
Jasper   Thu May 22, 2008 4:05 pm GMT
KC, according to the people who pioneered the technique, normal speech (not theatre) is the most effective for shadowing purposes. (The student is urged to get a tape of a friend, or tape the target speech right off the TV from news anchors) However, I can tell you from personal experience that audiobooks (which aren't exactly theatre, anyway) work just fine.

As an model speaker for RP? I confess that I don't know.
Thanks   Fri May 23, 2008 5:48 am GMT
Damian, I did use the online BBC radio streams to listen to the Parliament discussions (Radio 4), but i didnt know there was a whole channel dedicated to just Parliament. As for Gordon Brown, I think he speaks more or less in a RP fashion, except for some words where his Scottish slips through (i have heard him say 'doon' instead of 'down' for instance). And btw, I know you have strong feelings about this, but I absolutely adore the Glasgow accent (rather the Glesga accent) :). I however have not really had the chance to closely listen to the Edinburgh accent, which you say is the "dug's bollocks" :) (slang i heard in 'Rab Nesbitt, I think). Is there any youtube vid/other link which you would recommend for this accent?
Jasper. Thanks for the clarification. I find it easy to do the RP accent when I'm reading stuff, but when I'm speaking normally (i.e, with my mind occupied with thinking about what I'm saying, and not with the accent I'm using), I revert back to a mixture of my native accent and half RP.
Damian in Edinburgh   Fri May 23, 2008 7:45 am GMT
That BBC Parliamentary channel operates 24/7 but not all the discussions are "live" because not even our most dedicated of representatives down there at Westminster work on that basis - they have to be fed and watered and rested from time to time - just like your pet moggy.

As for David Cameron - he is way up on a mega high this morning after his Conservative party's victory in the Crewe and Nantwich by-election. His is definitely an RP accent but not really an irritating, out dated posh one, even though he went to Eton. (Some of my fellow Scots would disagree with me there - to them any English accent is "irritating". :-) All those excruciating cut glass English English, upper class, Southern England based accents have mostly died out now along with their speakers, a natural evolution in an ever changing, increasingly mobile society.

With Cameron on a high, poor wee Gordon Brown is on a downer this morning so his own brand of Kirkcaldy - ( say it as Kurrrr-CODDY and you're there!) - mournful monotones will be pretty much evident as he attempts to bluster his way out of the ass (we normally spell this differently but it'll do for now) kicking those voters in England have given him.

Try this link (voice clip No 2) to hear a typical sounding Edinburgh accent. Concentrate on James McSharry, a lad from this city talking about his disability - I would say his accent pretty much reflects my own for the most part.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/recordings/group/scotland-edinburgh.shtml

My jibes about the Glesga accent are not really meant in a malevolent way at all. It's just part of the (mostly) friendly rivalry between our two cities. They are just jealous that we are the capital city even though they are bigger!
Damian in Edinburgh   Fri May 23, 2008 7:55 am GMT
I forgot to mention the touch of Estuary in James' accent. As I've said before, the influence of Estuary has even spread up as far as Scotland and in particular to this part of Scotland (the first area to become
"Anglicised" anyway), and used mainly by the younger element - an inevitable development really. As long as it doesn't become as extreme as it is down in parts of London that's fine by me.
Damian in Edinburgh   Fri May 23, 2008 9:50 am GMT
In spite of David Cameron's undoubted Southern England background (he represents the constituency of Witney, a lush, plush "Tory as they come" seat in the depths of lush, plush rural west Oxfordshire) he has a thoroughly Scottish surname. I will try to find time to do some research on his family history.

Listen to the guy speaking close to his home near Witney this morning, following the historical win for the Conservatives over Labour at Crewe and Nantwich:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91211-1316908,00.html?f=rss
KC   Mon May 26, 2008 9:05 am GMT
Goodness me Damian, British Parliament is so very exciting. Put me to sleep after half an hour. I would prefer listening to the podcasts they have up on the BBC radio site - slick presentation and to the point. By the way, even the Parliament in my country is filled with politicians making long-winding speeches, but just to spice things up, once in a while, they'll get into a right good fight, throwing tables and chairs at each other. Sadly lacking in your country. You guys havent yet reached the pinnacle of democracy, it seems :).
I listened to the Edinburgh voice clips you suggested. Frankly, I didnt hear too much of a difference between Edinburgh and Glasgow accents (but what do i know, as a non-native, right?). Note though that my knowledge of Glasgow accents is from watching Still Game and Rab C Nesbitt.
Johnny Ex-pat   Mon May 26, 2008 11:08 am GMT
Just as a matter of interest, Damien, are the Conservatives making any headway up in Scotland?. Clearly they are whoopin Labour's ass in England but I wonder if they are in Scotland. How are Alex and the SNP doing now?.
Damian in Edinburgh   Mon May 26, 2008 8:33 pm GMT
KC - there truly IS a difference between the Glasgow accent and that of Edinburgh - it's unmistakeable, but naturally it's bound to be much more obvious to me than it would be to you, or to anyone else not from Scotland, or at least this part of it (the Central Belt, as it's called - the Forth-Clyde Valley).

Glasgow gets high profile coverage accent wise with so many well known characters from over that way, apart from Still Game and Nesbitt....many of them comedians. If you like Billy Connolly that's great, but I prefer the younger comedians such as Mark Nelson and Sean Grant - I understand their humour and style much better. Outside of Glasgow you have Ewan McGregor, but his Scottish accent has become much modified, except when he comes back home here then he's speaking all "local" again. I suppose one of our best known local Edinburgh lads is Sean Connery who seems to have retained a lot of his local accent even though he has lived away for very many years, but he comes back home to Edinburgh very often. I saw him one day walking along Rose Street, which is full of pubs, clubs and restaurants.

KC - of course our Parliamentary procedures are pretty sedate and well ordered affairs. No way would our respected Parliamentarians resort to the antics you described, never in this world. The hallowed chambers of Westminster would be the very last place where you would see chairs and brickbats and insults being slung around and fistfights breaking out in the debating chambers. True enough the House of Commons sees some pretty heated debates a lot of the time, and some rowdy yelling and bawling at the opposition benches but it all has to stick very firmly within the strict guidelines of what are known as Parliamentary Procedure. Step over the mark just one millimetre and you are in lumber with Mr Speaker. You are not alllowed to call a fellow Member of Parliament a "silly old git" or "a half cut buffoon" wihout being suspended from discussion and then being asked to explain yourself to Mr Speaker himself in private. Even if the accusations are spot on you still have to abide by the regulations, and as for all the things you said goes on in your country's seat of Government - they are simply NEVER done here in Britain, no matter what the provocation.

OK, a posse of lesbians abseiled down from the public gallery into the chamber of the House of Commons one day during a debate and harangued the astonished Members over some gay rights issue before they were frogmarched out by security guards, and some aggrieved fathers from Fathers For Justice chucked bags of purple powder down into the chamber from the public gallery one day (one of them hitting Gordon Brown smack bang onto his smart suit) before they too were rounded up and sent packing out of the Palace of Westminster, in spite of the fact that their cause was justified, but not the means of action. A few weeks later they clambered up onto the balcony of Buckingham Palace.

Now the front of the public gallery is faced with a huge glass screen making any such actions impossible to undertake, but still allows members of the public to follow all the debates by means of speakers & TV screens as well as looking down through the glass screen at the muppets down in the chamber all bawling and yelling at each other, but sitting firmly in place on the benches behaving impeccably....

Johnny Ex-Pat: The Conservatives did make inroads here in Scotland in the local and the Scottish Parliament Elections in 2007 - the first such increase in Conservative support in Scotland for some good few years. Public opinion polls recently also show increased support for them, at the expense of Labour. Even though Gordon Brown is Scottish, his name is a wee bit like "mud" right now for one reason or another, and Wendy Alexander, the Labour of the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood, has done and said some pretty weird things in and out of Parliament recently. Unlike down in England, voters in Scotland have the option here of voting for the SNP (Scottish National Party) as well as the Liberal Democrats, and these have been the main beneficiaries of disgruntled Labour voters in recent years, but now there are definite signs of people doing a straight swap from Labour to the Conservatives, especially in areas away from the cities and larger urban areas.

The swing to the Conservatives is considerably more apparent in England, as we saw last week in Crewe and Nantwich, a Labour seat since Adam was a lad!