To add to Travis's post: Wisconsonites speak a dialect "further away" from the GA-norm than do Seattleites.
CringeFest 7: I don't have an accent
Ah. Interesting. So if a Washingtonian went to Wisconsin, would he be able to pass as a Wisconsinite to most Wisconsinites and blend in, or would he be quickly labelled a 'foreigner' and asked where he was from or told "oh you sound like you must be from Washington" every time he opened his gob?
>>Ah. Interesting. So if a Washingtonian went to Wisconsin, would he be able to pass as a Wisconsinite to most Wisconsinites and blend in, or would he be quickly labelled a 'foreigner' and asked where he was from or told "oh you sound like you must be from Washington" every time he opened his gob?<<
No, he would most likely not sound like he was from Wisconsin, but then, just about anyone who does not speak either a dialect from here (or other closeby parts of the Upper Midwest) or a localized variation upon GA would sound vaguely "foreign" to our ears. Even our own TV newscasters who speak more conservative GA sound often sound "foreign" to our ears. But with that said, he would probably not stick out to our ears from other Americans not from the Upper Midwest, unlike, say, Southerners or New Yorkers; if we did pick out where he was from by his pronunciation, we would probably only pick him out as being from somewhere in the northern part of the West.
Of course, Wisconsinites are indeed a rather insular bunch, and we are rather apt to distinguish between Wisconsinites and other Americans, with just about anyone not originally from Wisconsin being seen as a foreigner of sorts - even those from as closeby as Chicago or Minneapolis/St. Paul. However, this is not a matter of what we happen to speak alone, as Milwaukeeans definitely sound much more like Chicagoans than like many people from other parts of Wisconsin, and yet socially they identify with other Wisconsinites and not with people from Chicago. (There is a long-standing enmity between Chicago and basically the whole of Wisconsin; while people from Minnesota and the Upper Peninsula are still distinguished from people from Wisconsin, no such enmity is expressed with respect to them here in Wisconsin.)
No, he would most likely not sound like he was from Wisconsin, but then, just about anyone who does not speak either a dialect from here (or other closeby parts of the Upper Midwest) or a localized variation upon GA would sound vaguely "foreign" to our ears. Even our own TV newscasters who speak more conservative GA sound often sound "foreign" to our ears. But with that said, he would probably not stick out to our ears from other Americans not from the Upper Midwest, unlike, say, Southerners or New Yorkers; if we did pick out where he was from by his pronunciation, we would probably only pick him out as being from somewhere in the northern part of the West.
Of course, Wisconsinites are indeed a rather insular bunch, and we are rather apt to distinguish between Wisconsinites and other Americans, with just about anyone not originally from Wisconsin being seen as a foreigner of sorts - even those from as closeby as Chicago or Minneapolis/St. Paul. However, this is not a matter of what we happen to speak alone, as Milwaukeeans definitely sound much more like Chicagoans than like many people from other parts of Wisconsin, and yet socially they identify with other Wisconsinites and not with people from Chicago. (There is a long-standing enmity between Chicago and basically the whole of Wisconsin; while people from Minnesota and the Upper Peninsula are still distinguished from people from Wisconsin, no such enmity is expressed with respect to them here in Wisconsin.)
(Oh, and actually, the way most Wisconsinites pick out people from Illinois are by license plate, not accent. However, many rural Wisconsinites do also distinguish between Milwaukeeans and themselves, and may conceptually lump Milwaukee in with Chicago - and it is easy to distinguish between Milwaukeeans *and* Chicagoans and other Wisconsinites by accent alone. Mind you, though, that in the mind of the average Wisconsinite "Illinois" is practically synonymous with "Chicago", much to the dismay of people from southern Illinois, who very often do not like being lumped in with Chicagoans and consider being treated like many Chicagoans as rather unfair to themselves.)
I was in Milwaukee for a couple of weeks this summer. I talked to lots of people, and nobody commented on my accent, or even asked where I was from. I did however notice a difference in accent.
I met someone from Madison who had moved to Seattle a couple of months ago. I heard the lack of the cot-caught merger, and the NCVS, so I asked where he was from. He said that he was from Wisconsin. I told him that I could tell by his accent. He said "What accent?" I asked him to pronounce the words cot and caught, and asked him whether they were the same or different. He said they were different. I told him that people here pronounced them the same way. He didn't believe me at first. He was quite surprised. Not only did he think that he didn't have an accent, but he said that he noticed no difference in the way people speak here compared to there.
That's the thing - we don't go and openly pick out people who are not from here at all; we do not announce that someone is not from here or speaks differently from us, even though we may occasionally mention it privately. For that matter, we normally do not say things openly about other people here in public one way or another unless we have a real need to communicate such about them in the first place (and even in cases where one is rather angry at the other person, such is very often limited to glaring).
However, there is a normally unspoken sense of there being a distinction between people from here and people from other parts of the US. We do tend to have more of an overall sense of camaraderie with other Wisconsinites than other Americans, particularly those from outside the Upper Midwest. At the same time, people from other areas are still thought of as vaguely different from people here, as being foreigners of a sort; conversely, people who have grown up here in Wisconsin but who have since moved elsewhere are still thought of as still underlyingly being Wisconsinites. This does vary within Wisconsin, though; many rural people in Wisconsin, for instance, do seem to think of Milwaukeeans as more different from themselves than, say, people from other urban areas in Wisconsin.
However, there is a normally unspoken sense of there being a distinction between people from here and people from other parts of the US. We do tend to have more of an overall sense of camaraderie with other Wisconsinites than other Americans, particularly those from outside the Upper Midwest. At the same time, people from other areas are still thought of as vaguely different from people here, as being foreigners of a sort; conversely, people who have grown up here in Wisconsin but who have since moved elsewhere are still thought of as still underlyingly being Wisconsinites. This does vary within Wisconsin, though; many rural people in Wisconsin, for instance, do seem to think of Milwaukeeans as more different from themselves than, say, people from other urban areas in Wisconsin.
>>I met someone from Madison who had moved to Seattle a couple of months ago. I heard the lack of the cot-caught merger, and the NCVS, so I asked where he was from. He said that he was from Wisconsin. I told him that I could tell by his accent. He said "What accent?" I asked him to pronounce the words cot and caught, and asked him whether they were the same or different. He said they were different. I told him that people here pronounced them the same way. He didn't believe me at first. He was quite surprised. Not only did he think that he didn't have an accent, but he said that he noticed no difference in the way people speak here compared to there.<<
Many people here in Wisconsin do seem to think that the way that they speak is "accentless" and "standard", and do seem to be blind to the fact that other Americans do speak differently from them. Mind you that much of what I have said here has been from my point of view, and I am generally far more aware of much of these matters than many other people here are, so do not expect every Wisconsinite you run into to see these kinds of things the way I do overall.
Many people here in Wisconsin do seem to think that the way that they speak is "accentless" and "standard", and do seem to be blind to the fact that other Americans do speak differently from them. Mind you that much of what I have said here has been from my point of view, and I am generally far more aware of much of these matters than many other people here are, so do not expect every Wisconsinite you run into to see these kinds of things the way I do overall.
Which region of Wisconsin has the closest accent to a Washington accent? Also how similar are the accents in Washington, Montana, and North Dakota?
>>Which region of Wisconsin has the closest accent to a Washington accent? Also how similar are the accents in Washington, Montana, and North Dakota?<<
Which region? More like which person... I would probably say the most likely bet in that regard would be an *older* middle or upper-class person from the south-central part of Wisconsin...
Which region? More like which person... I would probably say the most likely bet in that regard would be an *older* middle or upper-class person from the south-central part of Wisconsin...
Ooh, I'll record myself trying to fake a Wisconsin accent. I'm going to read the Rainbow Passage:
"When the sunlight strikes raindrops in the air, they act as a prism and form a rainbow. The rainbow is a division of white light into many beautiful colors. These take the shape of a long round arch, with its path high above, and its two ends apparently beyond the horizon. There is , according to legend, a boiling pot of gold at one end. People look, but no one ever finds it. When a man looks for something beyond his reach, his friends say he is looking for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Throughout the centuries people have explained the rainbow in various ways. Some have accepted it as a miracle without physical explanation. To the Hebrews it was a token that there would be no more universal floods."
Travis, what pronunciation changes should I make to the passage to sound like a native Milwaukeean? I'm from Seattle, and have a fairly typical Seattle accent.
"When the sunlight strikes raindrops in the air, they act as a prism and form a rainbow. The rainbow is a division of white light into many beautiful colors. These take the shape of a long round arch, with its path high above, and its two ends apparently beyond the horizon. There is , according to legend, a boiling pot of gold at one end. People look, but no one ever finds it. When a man looks for something beyond his reach, his friends say he is looking for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Throughout the centuries people have explained the rainbow in various ways. Some have accepted it as a miracle without physical explanation. To the Hebrews it was a token that there would be no more universal floods."
Travis, what pronunciation changes should I make to the passage to sound like a native Milwaukeean? I'm from Seattle, and have a fairly typical Seattle accent.
>> (such as the non-merger of /ɛŋ/ in "penguin" and "Genghis Khan") <<
Hmm. I don't understand. Are you trying to say that Penguin and Genghis have different vowels? To me they are [p_heNgw@n] and [geNg@s].
>> merging /æg/, /ɛg/, and /eɪ̯g/ as [eːg] <<
I don't think many people have that merger here though. Bag and beg are alike, true, but they are slightly different than vague.
Hmm. I don't understand. Are you trying to say that Penguin and Genghis have different vowels? To me they are [p_heNgw@n] and [geNg@s].
>> merging /æg/, /ɛg/, and /eɪ̯g/ as [eːg] <<
I don't think many people have that merger here though. Bag and beg are alike, true, but they are slightly different than vague.
>> Which region? More like which person... I would probably say the most likely bet in that regard would be an *older* middle or upper-class person from the south-central part of Wisconsin... <<
So does that mean that an older speaker from Seattle could be mistaken for an older speaker from south-central Wisconsin? An older speaker would most likely have no trace of the CVS, and the c-c merger seems to be rarely noticed by others, especially when the lower vowel is used.
So does that mean that an older speaker from Seattle could be mistaken for an older speaker from south-central Wisconsin? An older speaker would most likely have no trace of the CVS, and the c-c merger seems to be rarely noticed by others, especially when the lower vowel is used.
>>Travis, what pronunciation changes should I make to the passage to sound like a native Milwaukeean? I'm from Seattle, and have a fairly typical Seattle accent.<<
Honestly, there is a *lot* of phonetic details one would have to get right to truly sound like someone from here, particularly if one were aiming to actually speak the dialect here as opposed to more GA-like varieties spoken here in a truly accurate fashion. Even that big list of innovative features in the dialect here that I mentioned above was not comprehensive but rather was only supposed to outline just the most distinctive innovations found here which are not shared with much of NAE.
>>Hmm. I don't understand. Are you trying to say that Penguin and Genghis have different vowels? To me they are [p_heNgw@n] and [geNg@s].<<
I was referring to that at least in the dialect here in Milwaukee, "penguin" and "Genghis Khan" did not participate in the sound shift of /ɛŋ/ to [e(ː)ŋ], or were borrowed at the dialect level after said shift was no longer productive, hence they are today [ˈpʰɜ̃ːŋgwɨ̃ːn] and [ˌgɜ̃ːŋ(g)ɨsˈkʰãːn] rather than the expected [ˈpʰẽ̞ːŋgwɨ̃ːn] and [ˌgẽ̞ːŋ(g)ɨsˈkʰãːn].
>>>> Which region? More like which person... I would probably say the most likely bet in that regard would be an *older* middle or upper-class person from the south-central part of Wisconsin... <<
So does that mean that an older speaker from Seattle could be mistaken for an older speaker from south-central Wisconsin? An older speaker would most likely have no trace of the CVS, and the c-c merger seems to be rarely noticed by others, especially when the lower vowel is used.<<
I am not saying that they would be necessarily confused with an older middle or upper-class speaker from south-central Wisconsin, but they would most likely speak more like each other than than just about anyone else from Seattle and Wisconsin, newscasters notwithstanding. (Social class is important here, because in the past there was more stratification class-wise with respect to speech (at least amongst white people) here, and historically with higher social class people generally spoke closer to GA here than people of lower social class, moreso than today.)
Honestly, there is a *lot* of phonetic details one would have to get right to truly sound like someone from here, particularly if one were aiming to actually speak the dialect here as opposed to more GA-like varieties spoken here in a truly accurate fashion. Even that big list of innovative features in the dialect here that I mentioned above was not comprehensive but rather was only supposed to outline just the most distinctive innovations found here which are not shared with much of NAE.
>>Hmm. I don't understand. Are you trying to say that Penguin and Genghis have different vowels? To me they are [p_heNgw@n] and [geNg@s].<<
I was referring to that at least in the dialect here in Milwaukee, "penguin" and "Genghis Khan" did not participate in the sound shift of /ɛŋ/ to [e(ː)ŋ], or were borrowed at the dialect level after said shift was no longer productive, hence they are today [ˈpʰɜ̃ːŋgwɨ̃ːn] and [ˌgɜ̃ːŋ(g)ɨsˈkʰãːn] rather than the expected [ˈpʰẽ̞ːŋgwɨ̃ːn] and [ˌgẽ̞ːŋ(g)ɨsˈkʰãːn].
>>>> Which region? More like which person... I would probably say the most likely bet in that regard would be an *older* middle or upper-class person from the south-central part of Wisconsin... <<
So does that mean that an older speaker from Seattle could be mistaken for an older speaker from south-central Wisconsin? An older speaker would most likely have no trace of the CVS, and the c-c merger seems to be rarely noticed by others, especially when the lower vowel is used.<<
I am not saying that they would be necessarily confused with an older middle or upper-class speaker from south-central Wisconsin, but they would most likely speak more like each other than than just about anyone else from Seattle and Wisconsin, newscasters notwithstanding. (Social class is important here, because in the past there was more stratification class-wise with respect to speech (at least amongst white people) here, and historically with higher social class people generally spoke closer to GA here than people of lower social class, moreso than today.)
>>I met someone from Madison who had moved to Seattle a couple of months ago. I heard the lack of the cot-caught merger, and the NCVS, so I asked where he was from. He said that he was from Wisconsin. I told him that I could tell by his accent. He said "What accent?" I asked him to pronounce the words cot and caught, and asked him whether they were the same or different. He said they were different. I told him that people here pronounced them the same way. He didn't believe me at first. He was quite surprised. Not only did he think that he didn't have an accent, but he said that he noticed no difference in the way people speak here compared to there.<<
This has happened to me on several occasions. In one notable occasion, the Wisconsinite got quite perturbed at my notion that he had "an accent". I had to "let it go", because he was getting visibly angry.
Despite this, I can hear a Wisconsin accent in the first sentence or two. We Reno-ites sometimes poke gentle fun at them for having an accent, even though they often think they don't...
This has happened to me on several occasions. In one notable occasion, the Wisconsinite got quite perturbed at my notion that he had "an accent". I had to "let it go", because he was getting visibly angry.
Despite this, I can hear a Wisconsin accent in the first sentence or two. We Reno-ites sometimes poke gentle fun at them for having an accent, even though they often think they don't...