Forgetting languages - what first?

When one doesn't use a language for a long time what are the first things that he will begin to forget with respect to knowledge (ie, apart from an ability to actively input in the language)? I have studied some languages on and off and I've found while my grammar remains strong I tend to lose the precise meaning of the more rare words. For example, if I come across the word, I will recognise it, and realise that I once knew it and have an idea of the meaning but I won't be sure of the exact meaning. Or I will remember the primary meaning but forget the secondary ones. I tend to still be able to passively understand spoken and written language though without much trouble, as long as the vocabulary is fairly standard.

What do you think of this? What have you experienced? Similar to this?

Are you collecting information for a PhD thesis?

<<Are you collecting information for a PhD thesis?>>

No, although it would be a good topic and I would like to read it.

I think,,, hope that doesn't sound too general, I think more abstract things are easier to forget, such as idioms. I think English idioms, or even many in other languages, don't make much sense to me at all. I may know too little, but it's been very difficult to learn idioms. Even tho many words tend to be idiomatic, they aren't as difficult as idioms - I can speak a language fairly "fluently" without knowing all those idioms at all but, naturally, my comprehension could be quite poor.

PS: So, that's why, no matter what PC ideas you have against my points, I still think it could be needlessly tiring to try to "learn" idioms in a planned way. I know a bit about Taoism and I know the limit of language study.... at some point of time I find it more practical just to let passive knowledge sink in, and the world is still ok if I can't use idioms actively, for example.

But I also think at some point of time a language is not quite forgettable. You may need increasingly more time to forget it. Perhaps beyond the intermediate stage, or even somewhat below it, passive knowledge may have become quite "fossilized" (this is good) and... while ur output may become atrocious, your comprehension might stay quite intact. Think about it: how can I keep my English intact, despite that I almost never talk to anyone? Outside the linguistic boundary, both introverts and extroverts are blocked from talking to natives in general, and they may find it easiest to keep the passive (comprehension) knowledge.

Forgot to add: having that said, I don't think my knowledge of both English (an FL) and my native language would be "watered down" if I use idioms too little. I don't use a lot of idioms during the day, so...

there must be certain expressions that we know in daily usage (and typically those of our native languages) but don't use actively at all. I don't talk like a girl (so I don't use some of their frequently used interjections frequently), I'm not an old person...

and indeed, that kind of knowledge might be irrelevant to the foreign learners who aren't expecting to stay in the foreign country. Or, is it possible for advanced learners just to pick up those things _only_ when staying there?

Тhat's interesting to know, thanks, Xie.

Hmm. So since this is a language forum I would assume a lot of you have "dabbled" in languages for a while, and then decided not to continue learning them. What are the things that stick with you a long time after you give it up? Do you remember basic phrases like "how old are you?"? Do you remember basic grammatical structures, like verb conjugations? Do you remember random words? Or something else? Or none of the above?

Ah, yes, I do dabble, but all I know are a few random words, yes. I won't really read a phrasebook. My lifestyle is quite different... I think a language is unforgettable after "1 year", after you are done with the foundations... this is difficult to say literally, but it must be way beyond a random phrasebook.

that's why i can't tell u what i dabbled, because when i dabble it means i'll either remember a few numbers only OR go on for at least 1 year. that said, i'd agree it's like putting the knowledge into a drawer of your wardrobe. If there is at least some *obscure* context that makes the random words stick, it could stick for quite long.

I can still mumble 1-10 in Teochew without knowing anything more than 20 words. I can still recognize a text in a few European languages without even knowing their alphabets. Can I call this "dabbling"? I'm not really learning them, but I can remember them in context.

The same happens with monotonous work. For example, I've just been working on a lot of exam scripts, and even without the knowledge to correct the scripts, I can sometimes know how to answer that particular question without having studied the subject myself. I should perhaps call it "reflexive". This is like how I remember the way to go to street A somewhere beyond the district I'm living, a random shopping mall (many, at my place) somewhere that costs me a few dollars to go to by public transport. It might actually be one of the exact situations where I don't "learn" consciously but internalize the content even without any textbooks. Yes, I need some books for a language, but to let some expressions become reflexive (day by day), I only need to think.

*I was supposed to go thru some 500 scripts each day.

Then it may actually be about "experience" in general. You won't know how to go to a random street or take the bus there until you do it and only thru doing it. Hm, in that sense, then I know why there's no short-cut to it. There must be ways to doing it a bit faster, but never "immediately". You can take the bus faster thru... i don't know, taking it just on time without waiting at the bus-stop? But you just can't skip "going to the bus-stop".

So, besides the design of language books, it's also our own responsibility of managing our learning process.

I wouldn't worry about forgetting an occasional rare word.

I often hear about people and their language-learning histories. Often their stories are very funny. Some people actually remember quite a lot and others only remember the weird phrases, the ones that didn't seem to be useful.

Some don't even remember how to pronounce the words, they just remember the meaning of the words and the vague shape of the sentence. Ow! In other words, I have no idea what they are saying in the languages they claim are "French" or "German". At least in Spanish, I can guess even if their pronunciation is awful.

Old English
Scottish Gaelic

I make more mistakes by making up words... you can read my English to find them out. XDDDDDD

Hmm. How long does it take to start to forget a language? I took French way back in Middle School for two years, and yet I still remember 99% of what I learned of it. I haven't studied it at all since then, but surprisingly it has gotten much better. Other than reading the occasional book in French over the years, I haven't taken a class or studied French at all. However, in the mean time, I have taught myself about Latin roots in English, and have studied phonology and philology. When I run into someone that speaks French today, I can converse with them even *better* than back in Middle School, and my vocabulary is much bigger, and my pronunciation is so much better. My vocabulary is much bigger, because my English vocabulary is bigger, and there are lots of words that you can take from English, and re-pronounce in the French way. Also, because I have learned about Phonology, I now know the common mistakes that English speakers make when speaking French, and I try to avoid them. When I took French back in Middle school, nobody mentioned things like nasalized vowels, or monophthongal o's, or dental t's, etc--so we just substituted the closest English sounds. So, anyway, I think my French has gotten much better with time, rather than forgetting it. I estimate that I have only forgotten 1% of the vocabulary that I learned.