I'm sure Skippy is skippy. My real name is Jif. No, I'm kidding.
Legitimising dialect discrimination
Physicians vary a little bit in the language they use. Some use common language. Some physicians "cuss" when talking to male patients. Some are ice-cold, some are nearly silent, some are comedians, some are loudmouths, some talk to patients as if they were children, others as if they were equals and a few are just plain nuts- as in crazy, good at their work, but so crazy, their stress spills out when they talk.
The "thing" is, you can't tell if the physician is any good by the way they talk. Physicians with a good bedside manner won't get sued as much as Dr. Abrasive, but both may be equally good.
If you can get your physician to relate to you in some way, it will be to your advantage later on.
The "thing" is, you can't tell if the physician is any good by the way they talk. Physicians with a good bedside manner won't get sued as much as Dr. Abrasive, but both may be equally good.
If you can get your physician to relate to you in some way, it will be to your advantage later on.
<<If you can get your physician to relate to you in some way, it will be to your advantage later on.>>
Yes, especially when it's time to summon Emily Dickenson's friend with the carriage.
Yes, especially when it's time to summon Emily Dickenson's friend with the carriage.
<<I'm getting at the fact that many standard English speakers also do not move on linguisticallly.>>
Move on to where?
Move on to where?
<<I'm getting at the fact that many standard English speakers also do not move on linguisticallly.>>
Oh they do. They steal non-standard words and make them their own. Words that they've called "stigmatized" for years.
They don't invent new language, they steal it.
Oh they do. They steal non-standard words and make them their own. Words that they've called "stigmatized" for years.
They don't invent new language, they steal it.
Oh they do. They steal non-standard words and make them their own. Words that they've called "stigmatized" for years.
<<They don't invent new language, they steal it.
Do you mean words like "groovy" and "solid" and "Cool" that generally come into the mainstream lexicon via music and pop culture or do you mean the assimilation of foreign language words into mainstream English vocabulary? If the former, I can think of certain hip hop words that seem to be stigmatized that may be moving into the mainstream. Some examples are: Crib for house, "down" meaning to be in agreement and "yo" as in the greeting. These words seem to be seeping into the mainstream but I don't think it's because the mainstream is "stealing" the words per se, rather I think it's the result of media and marketing firms using the words so frequently in television ads, talk shows, etc that the words are becoming familiar enough with them to begin using them in the mainstream. That seems to happen a lot.
If you mean the latter, I can think of words and expressions such as "hasta la vista", por favor, manana (I don't have a tilde for the "N") "beaucoup" "chic" and "Gezundheidt" that were all borrowed (of stolen if you will) from foreign languages and put to use in mainstream English.
<<They don't invent new language, they steal it.
Do you mean words like "groovy" and "solid" and "Cool" that generally come into the mainstream lexicon via music and pop culture or do you mean the assimilation of foreign language words into mainstream English vocabulary? If the former, I can think of certain hip hop words that seem to be stigmatized that may be moving into the mainstream. Some examples are: Crib for house, "down" meaning to be in agreement and "yo" as in the greeting. These words seem to be seeping into the mainstream but I don't think it's because the mainstream is "stealing" the words per se, rather I think it's the result of media and marketing firms using the words so frequently in television ads, talk shows, etc that the words are becoming familiar enough with them to begin using them in the mainstream. That seems to happen a lot.
If you mean the latter, I can think of words and expressions such as "hasta la vista", por favor, manana (I don't have a tilde for the "N") "beaucoup" "chic" and "Gezundheidt" that were all borrowed (of stolen if you will) from foreign languages and put to use in mainstream English.
<Do you mean words like "groovy" and "solid" and "Cool" that generally come into the mainstream lexicon via music and pop culture or do you mean the assimilation of foreign language words into mainstream English vocabulary?>
Things that are at one time stigmatized, be they from pop or foreign shores.
The rest of us feel quite happy using such "stigmatized" words. We see value in such words, have done for years, but it takes the standardist a long time to get it together.
Things that are at one time stigmatized, be they from pop or foreign shores.
The rest of us feel quite happy using such "stigmatized" words. We see value in such words, have done for years, but it takes the standardist a long time to get it together.
<<The rest of us feel quite happy using such "stigmatized" words.>>
<<We see value in such words, have done for years, but it takes the standardist a long time to get it together. >>
This is very interesting. I was hoping you'd come back to this thread. Can you give some examples of how certain words started being used as import words in your group quite nicely without resistance as well as some eexemples of words that made it into the vocabulary of the standardists, but only with great difficulty? And so we can have a very clear picture, can you tell us which statdard group had a harder time (for example, NY cabbies would be less likely to welcome new words into their lexicon, while a hippy commune out at the old Spahn Ranch site might welcome the new words from ANY source whatsoever. I'm just making guesses here, so i the OP has some examples it would be very cool to see them. Finally, May we know who "the rest of us" (who readily accept words from another language) are and who the "others" (standard speakers) are? Interesting post! Made more interesting I"m sure because I've been up for 72 hours straight.
<<We see value in such words, have done for years, but it takes the standardist a long time to get it together. >>
This is very interesting. I was hoping you'd come back to this thread. Can you give some examples of how certain words started being used as import words in your group quite nicely without resistance as well as some eexemples of words that made it into the vocabulary of the standardists, but only with great difficulty? And so we can have a very clear picture, can you tell us which statdard group had a harder time (for example, NY cabbies would be less likely to welcome new words into their lexicon, while a hippy commune out at the old Spahn Ranch site might welcome the new words from ANY source whatsoever. I'm just making guesses here, so i the OP has some examples it would be very cool to see them. Finally, May we know who "the rest of us" (who readily accept words from another language) are and who the "others" (standard speakers) are? Interesting post! Made more interesting I"m sure because I've been up for 72 hours straight.
<can you tell us which statdard group had a harder time (for example, NY cabbies would be less likely to welcome new words into their lexicon, while a hippy commune out at the old Spahn Ranch site might welcome the new words from ANY source whatsoever>
What do you understand by the words: standardist, standard form of a language, non-standard form of a langauge, and stigmatized langauge, Beth?
What do you understand by the words: standardist, standard form of a language, non-standard form of a langauge, and stigmatized langauge, Beth?
**May we know who "the rest of us" (who readily accept words from another language) are and who the "others" (standard speakers) are?**
Interesting post!I think the story goes like this, tired Beth:
Standard English speakers say that their usage is correct and the use of people outside their "group" is non-standard. They also say that a lot of words outside their usage are stigmatized and advise against using such words.
It is the standardists who create "the other". Is it they who create "the rest of us". So, I see the poster's point about "stealing" language or taking forever to accept perfectly good usage.
Interesting post!I think the story goes like this, tired Beth:
Standard English speakers say that their usage is correct and the use of people outside their "group" is non-standard. They also say that a lot of words outside their usage are stigmatized and advise against using such words.
It is the standardists who create "the other". Is it they who create "the rest of us". So, I see the poster's point about "stealing" language or taking forever to accept perfectly good usage.
Yes, standard English speakers usually say "I'm not going to use that language item until I'm told it is standard": non-standard users usually just get on with using such language.
Only one of those two approaches is grown-up behaviour. You decide.
Only one of those two approaches is grown-up behaviour. You decide.
I was a linguistic major in college before I switched to business. standard, non standard and stigmatized forms of language.... the words are pretty intuitive to me. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand basic sociolinguistic theory.
Then again, Guest if you don't have any examples beyond the ones I used above, you could just say "yeah, that's what I meant. It's not necessary to be defensive and pretend you don't want to tell me because I wouldn't understand the Linguistics 101 terminology. Then again perhaps you're the holder of some arcane knowledge best kept from the rest of us and used only when bragging or making accusations about the main language stealing away the words of the stimatized speakers.
So are you going to give us some examples or were you just making all that stuff up? And if you answer this question with another question it will be clear you were just making claims having no facts to back up your claims or accusations. I'm very interested to see what your next response will be. Will it be an interesting post full of information that can be verified or will it be an emotional rant thaht will reveal you don't know what the fuck you're talking about on here. So let' see what you got. If I'm wrong, I will be pleased because I'd really like some enlightening information as opposed to more inane questions used as a smokescreen to cover up for your inability to provide actual data.
Then again, Guest if you don't have any examples beyond the ones I used above, you could just say "yeah, that's what I meant. It's not necessary to be defensive and pretend you don't want to tell me because I wouldn't understand the Linguistics 101 terminology. Then again perhaps you're the holder of some arcane knowledge best kept from the rest of us and used only when bragging or making accusations about the main language stealing away the words of the stimatized speakers.
So are you going to give us some examples or were you just making all that stuff up? And if you answer this question with another question it will be clear you were just making claims having no facts to back up your claims or accusations. I'm very interested to see what your next response will be. Will it be an interesting post full of information that can be verified or will it be an emotional rant thaht will reveal you don't know what the fuck you're talking about on here. So let' see what you got. If I'm wrong, I will be pleased because I'd really like some enlightening information as opposed to more inane questions used as a smokescreen to cover up for your inability to provide actual data.
<So are you going to give us some examples or were you just making all that stuff up? >
If, as you say, you were a linguistics major, I'd have thought you would know examples. If you've never seen it happen, I doubt you studied linguistics.
If, as you say, you were a linguistics major, I'd have thought you would know examples. If you've never seen it happen, I doubt you studied linguistics.
<or will it be an emotional rant thaht will reveal you don't know what the fuck you're talking about on here. >
Interesting how your idiolect is equal to that of JohnnyC. You also "spell" "thaht" in the same way as him.
Come on out, Johnny. The game's up.
Interesting how your idiolect is equal to that of JohnnyC. You also "spell" "thaht" in the same way as him.
Come on out, Johnny. The game's up.
<<<So are you going to give us some examples or were you just making all that stuff up? >
If, as you say, you were a linguistics major, I'd have thought you would know examples. If you've never seen it happen, I doubt you studied linguistics.>>
So as I thought, you dont have any examples other than the ones provided above.
BFD... Caz, MollyB, Morgan and some of the "Guests" are all the same person. You didn't respond to the question for examples with any examples of your own. The reason I used "Beth" was because I was seriously interested in your post about word stealing. I thought if I responded as someone new you'd perhaps engage in an honest dialogue on the subject. But you didn't. You became defensive as always. Trying to have an intelligent conversation with you is like trying to discuss politics with the homeless guy screaming at birds outside the 7-11. You're both too mentally unbalanced to disxuss anything. You can write attack-posts but an exchange of information is not within your skillset. You are a child and I won't allow you to waste any more of my time. Future rants coming from you will be ignored.
If, as you say, you were a linguistics major, I'd have thought you would know examples. If you've never seen it happen, I doubt you studied linguistics.>>
So as I thought, you dont have any examples other than the ones provided above.
BFD... Caz, MollyB, Morgan and some of the "Guests" are all the same person. You didn't respond to the question for examples with any examples of your own. The reason I used "Beth" was because I was seriously interested in your post about word stealing. I thought if I responded as someone new you'd perhaps engage in an honest dialogue on the subject. But you didn't. You became defensive as always. Trying to have an intelligent conversation with you is like trying to discuss politics with the homeless guy screaming at birds outside the 7-11. You're both too mentally unbalanced to disxuss anything. You can write attack-posts but an exchange of information is not within your skillset. You are a child and I won't allow you to waste any more of my time. Future rants coming from you will be ignored.