Why are English speakers so lazy about learning?

Guest   Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:54 am GMT
<< Chances are that you have to learn it very hard, and you would be treated rather differently from others. >>

This is why we work very hard to become good in the world language - Spanish. Because when we use your language with your people and they treat us as you put it "rather differently from others" we can simply reply 'This is not how the people from the Spanish speaking world treat us when we speak Spanish with them' - 'The people from the Spanish speaking world treat us very well'. Also, because we have learned Spanish rather well, we are not going to be bluffed into giving up studying Cantonese by such strategies (again) as you put it "treated rather differently from others".

"treated rather differently from others" - What exactly does this mean? What happens to outsiders who try to use Cantonese?
K. T.   Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:03 am GMT
Steve K, "The linguist" reportedly speaks some Cantonese. Xie told us that SK's level is intermediate. Normally, I would not get excited about an intermediate level. It's just another vague term that tells me only that he is not a beginner. On the other hand, I am slightly impressed when someone goes for Cantonese when the pressure is on to learn Mandarin.

"There's a person who has a reason," I think. Perhaps the reason is business or perhaps it is love, but something is there. I don't think Cantonese is a language many people collect.
Guest   Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:23 am GMT
<< Steve K, "The linguist" reportedly speaks some Cantonese. Xie told us that SK's level is intermediate. >>

When I had a vocabulary of approximately 200 words in Cantonese, I was assessed by many Cantonese people (good or fluent speakers of English) as having a Cantonese vocabulary that just equated to a few greeting & hello goodbye words - about 10 words.
K. T.   Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:35 am GMT
To me, 200 words is a beginner, an early beginner. Do you know something about SK's level? I can't judge it at all as I know almost no Cantonese.
Guest   Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:57 am GMT
<< To me, 200 words is a beginner, an early beginner. Do you know something about SK's level? I can't judge it at all as I know almost no Cantonese. >>

I thought SK was aiming for fluency in Cantonese.

I had a vocabulary of 200 words in Cantonese. These 200words (approx) were and still are stored very well in my memory. I have since done two beginner/lower intermediate courses in Cantonese that provide a combined vocabulary of around about 1000 words. However, I need to revise these courses a number of times to consolidate the vocabularly while putting up with the added burden of being "treated rather differently from others". I have identified and bought two other Cantonese courses that I will pursue in the long term, one of which has the word intermediate in its title.
Guest   Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:07 am GMT
Westerners do the exact same thing with "treating rather differently foreigners...", it is called PC. When I go down to the pub with my mates I can insult them freely "shit mate your hair's outta control", "dude , you're looking pretty pasty", but I can't say to a foreigner "dude, you're looking pretty black today", so I't the same shit.
Guest   Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:19 am GMT
No it isn't. It's very different.
Guest   Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:40 am GMT
no it isnt different
Guest   Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:41 am GMT
yes it is you stupid or what?
Guest   Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:42 am GMT
<< Steve K, "The linguist" reportedly speaks some Cantonese. Xie told us that SK's level is intermediate. >>

I know a Cantonese Chinese and we both know this Westerner who has had many years of Cantonese language experience. Initially, the Cantonese Chinese (Fluent in English and Cantonese - Grew up in Hong Kong) assessed the Westerner's Cantonese as being not very good. I spoke with the Westerner for some time and came away with the impression that the Westerner's Cantonese is fluent or very close to being fluent. I put this information that I had gained from the Westerner to the Cantonese Chinese. The Cantonese Chinese thought about this information of mine for some time and came up with a new assessment - that being that the Westerner in question is fluent in Chinese Cantonese.
Guest   Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:01 am GMT
<< English is just as hard to learn to a native level as Chinese, so get off your high horse... It's just we are more tolerant than you. >>

Being able to pass for a native English speaker may take a fair bit of effort, if you start learning it as an adult. However, isn't English one of the world's easiest languages to learn a useful amount of?
K. T.   Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:16 pm GMT
"I know a Cantonese Chinese and we both know this Westerner who has had many years of Cantonese language experience. Initially, the Cantonese Chinese (Fluent in English and Cantonese - Grew up in Hong Kong) assessed the Westerner's Cantonese as being not very good. I spoke with the Westerner for some time and came away with the impression that the Westerner's Cantonese is fluent or very close to being fluent. I put this information that I had gained from the Westerner to the Cantonese Chinese. The Cantonese Chinese thought about this information of mine for some time and came up with a new assessment - that being that the Westerner in question is fluent in Chinese Cantonese"

I don't understand this unless you are trying to be funny. It seems like there is a missing piece of the story-your background. Can you speak Cantonese?
Guest   Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:20 pm GMT
"""I know a Cantonese Chinese and we both know this Westerner who has had many years of Cantonese language experience. Initially, the Cantonese Chinese (Fluent in English and Cantonese - Grew up in Hong Kong) assessed the Westerner's Cantonese as being not very good. I spoke with the Westerner for some time and came away with the impression that the Westerner's Cantonese is fluent or very close to being fluent. I put this information that I had gained from the Westerner to the Cantonese Chinese. The Cantonese Chinese thought about this information of mine for some time and came up with a new assessment - that being that the Westerner in question is fluent in Chinese Cantonese"

I really don't understand the point of this comment. Is it that you know a Westerner who is fluent or almost fluent in Cantonese?
Muslim Guest   Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:51 pm GMT
<<The anti-Mexican sentiment is simply because U.S. Americans are misinformed about the dynamics of U.S. (economic) imperialism, zombies to their government, and simply because some Americans are racist towards other minorites / races and get off on it>>

Well, there you go then. It looks like you have it all figured out and somehow have been able to intuit what is in the minds of all US Americans, probably without ever having been to the US or gotten to know any Americans who have interaction with Mexicans or having spoken with any Mexicans about it either. It's also interesting that like George Bush, you don't allow real life nuiances and shaded complexities to get in the way of a simplistic ideal. Any issue that arises can be boiled down to a few simple maxims... "Americans are racists" Americans are facists" etc. The idea that by painting an entire population with one color you are guilty of the same thing you accuse Americans of doesn't occur to you because "you have right on your side". You make Americans "other" and therefore they are not nuanced like you. They cannot have individual motivations like the people in your group/nationality. The mark of zombie ideology is a refusal to consider an opposing viewpoint. I have considered your viewpoint and give you credit for certain areas. You on the other hand do not even consider anything outside of your program "Americans are imperialistic oppressors". It's not a lack of intelligence, but a lack of ability to accept ideas that do not align to your program.
Guest   Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:48 pm GMT
<< I don't understand this unless you are trying to be funny. It seems like there is a missing piece of the story-your background. Can you speak Cantonese? >>

<< I really don't understand the point of this comment. Is it that you know a Westerner who is fluent or almost fluent in Cantonese? >>

Do you have any experience or skills in drawing inferences?