Michel Thomas or Pimsleur?

Caspian   Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:31 pm GMT
There are many language learning methods out there, but only a select few are original; I once heard (or read) someone sy that a lot of them are just glorified phrasebooks.

The Michel Thomas and Pimsleur methods are not miles apart, however there are a few key differences;

1. The Pimsleur method teaches you phrases, and you have to work out the grammar rules yourself, whereas the Michel Thomas method explains the grammar rules to you by making sure that you understand how they are used in your own language as well.

2. The Pimsleur method consists of mainly listen and repeat methods, whereas the Michel Thomas method has two people on the tape who are being taught, and you act as the third student. Having sad this, however, the Pimsleur method does ask you to form sentences, but mostly, these sentences have been learnt before, or parts of them anyway.

So, which one works better for you? It's a matter of personal preference; personally, I find the Michel Thomas method to be more effective in achieving fluency, however the Pimsleur method is good for vocabulary.

Out of these 2 methods only, which one do you prefer?
JLK   Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:46 pm GMT
In my humble opinion, Michel Thomas is an all around superior product. You learn more vocabulary and grammar and you learn it quicker. It's only negative is that it doesn't offer as many languages as pimsleur.
Caspian   Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:42 pm GMT
Yes, I agree with you fully; Michel Thomas is definitely a superior product, however do you find Pimsleur effective as well?
K. T.   Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:58 pm GMT
I've taken both products for test drives and neither is my favourite. I'd like to try the Mandarin (new) Michel Thomas, but I know that the Pimsleur Mandarin works pretty darn well. Someone using it, learned Chinese well enough to get a job interview in HK.
Xie   Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:04 am GMT
They aren't really the same. If u can, try both, but Pimsleur first, or both together. I think Pimsleur is quite complete as one of its own kind.

But above all, I find these programs ideal for getting started. If I have already learned a few languages fluently on my own with the things I've mentioned here so far, I might still be using these programs, though... but probably Pimsleur for having too much English and being rather cost-inefficient.

That said, it's good when u dont even have the time to read a book.
Guest   Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:10 am GMT
<<If I have already learned a few languages fluently on my own with the things I've mentioned here so far, I might still be using these programs, though... but probably Pimsleur for having too much English and being rather cost-inefficient. >>


In Tokyo the most effective course is not really a limitation to one's ability to use credit cards. I think it stems from a kind of self-hate, that most people tend to have,.. I guess I'll just have to put up with it because I don't see any change soon.
Marina   Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:48 pm GMT
I want to share here my experience with Pimsleur and some advises that worked for me.

A couple of years ago, I wanted to learn Mandarin. I have used (amongst others) Pimsleur CDs (all 3 series, up to advanced) and I must say that I liked the method a lot, as it really ‘prints’ the words and sentences into your brain. Before you realize, you have all these new words and sentences at your disposal in the new language.

BUT…

What I really missed was being able to exercise real conversation plus someone correcting me, especially the pronunciation. I was never sure that what I was repeating after the CD was right (and with Mandarin in particular, correct pronunciation is even more critical: just a slight mistake in ‘tone’ and the word has a totally different meaning). Also, when listening for the first time to natives I had difficulty understanding them, because they normally speak with different speed and intonations then the recordings in CDs.

What I noticed is that I could repeat all the sentences as learned, but I was not able to have a conversation in a real life situation.


This is where I think a good teacher can make a difference. I tried a couple here in Holland, where I live, but they were either too expensive or not good enough.
Until I found the solution: I am now taking one-on-one conversation classes with a native Chinese living in China using Myngle.com.
I have sent to my teacher the transcript of the main sentences and words learned with Pimsleur, and he structures the conversation lessons around these, with a lot of questions and answers, adding different way of saying the same thing, as well as different combinations of words and sentences.
I must say that this is an incredibly effective combination.
After just a few lessons I feel I can now have basic but already interesting conversations.
At 10EUR per private lesson, that is not much compared to what I would have paid here in Holland.

For the sake of being completely transparent to any reader of this Forum, I want to add that I am the founder of Myngle, but believe me, this is not advertising.
I founded Myngle exactly because of my need while learning Mandarin. I was wondering ‘Is there a not so expensive way of really learning the language?’ I was the first customer of Myngle myself.
For those of you who wonder: Myngle is the online global marketplace for language learning where VOIP is the medium that connects teachers to students. Live one-on-one lessons are being taught with sometimes over 10.000 kilometers between student and teacher. So it is very convenient, as you can take lessons whenever and wherever you want, just sitting in front of your computer.


I really believe blended learning can be extremely effective, as it combines the convenience of asynchronous methods as Pimsleur with the interaction with a real teacher. This is often done within language schools. So why not giving the possibility to everyone to do its own ‘self service’ combination of blended learning from home?

This is only my experience, but I hope it can be useful to some of the readers out there who are really interested in learning a new language.

Does any of you has also experience of combining Pimsleur (or similar programs) with teacher's support?

Marina
guest2   Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:39 pm GMT
I haven't had much exposure to Michel Thomas, but I can comment on Pimsleur. I'm not too impressed. You go through a lot of recordings (pricey, too) to learn a few phrases, while hearing a lot of English. I suppose it's good for people who need someone to lead them--you will learn a little.

I much prefer courses where there is little or no English, and lots of material. (Successful polyglots like Alexander Arguelles and Steve Kaufmann also hold this view.) What's so hard about putting your CD on repeat mode? You will need more motivation, and will have to look at the text (at least at first) to figure out the meaning, but you will get more out of it. The commercial courses I've seen that do that are Assimil and the new Ultimate series from Living language. I even know of people who learned by having tapes made of the dialogues in their college texts--and listening over and over until it was understood and "absorbed."
K. T.   Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:42 pm GMT
Marina,

This sounds like an ad for your service, but I imagine that some here would be interested in your service especially since the price you mention seems reasonable.

Afaik "advice" is the word you want in your post, not "advices".

There is a related word "advises", but it is a verb. Advice (noun) does not have a plural form afaik. We do say "pieces of advice" to describe what you want to say in your post.

"He advises me to get better advice." (Shows both usages of this word)

I know someone who used Pimsleur along with a teacher at a private language school. The result was very good (the result I mentioned in my earlier post.)
Xie   Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:27 am GMT
I beg for your comments about Michel Thomas Mandarin. For me, it's really terribly basic. Pimsleur covers more than it does.

Actually, I think chinesepod would be too damn good to replace these 2 programs combined. I'm not a salesman of that company, but I swear by that site even as a Chinese.

Many of us would only speak very shaky Mandarin (and translate from ours rather than learn the genuine Mandarin) or even shaky English to mainlanders.... but chinesepod really saved the day since last year. It's much better than trying to listen to CCTV hopelessly, catching only a few phrases every 2/3 sentences.... and I'm not very into watching TV, so that's how I learned.
K. T.   Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:30 am GMT
I've heard of Chinesepod. I think I even listened to it once.

Even the Michel Thomas Advanced courses are kind of basic, but I heard that the Mandarin had a good explanation of tones. I know that Pimsleur worked for one person I know, but he is not lazy and he went to Chinese school, went out and practiced with Chinese people

Mandarin isn't for lazy people.
K. T.   Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:32 am GMT
Xie,

What are you reading these days? You mix formal language and casual language.
Guest   Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:25 am GMT
Learn In Your Car and Pimsleur or Michel Thomas
Guest   Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:58 am GMT
And here it starts to fade.
Xie   Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:41 am GMT
These days my English is getting shaky too. English isn't for lazy people! I only find that some of the ESL podcasts are superb for informal language, but too simplistic for grammar. An example would be too boring for you, but... all that I can say is some of those .... their content seems to be a bit watered down, without the kind of vocab I can actually see in news sites, literature...

but the English they offer is roughly the same that you can see in any random forums.

So yes, I'd say podcasts aren't only of one kind. Even among educational ones, some tend to be very neatly graded, some are very disorganized, and some are very watered down. The kind of English I had tried to learn was the extremely formal one; what I can learn from podcasts (not probably one that is like chinesepod) is generally more about informal language, and there's a lot of input for listening comprehension.