Anglophones' Linguistic Preference

Guest   Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:01 am GMT
<< At the same time, in some areas of the English Canada, Spanish is more studied than French. That is the tendency also in Ireland, Australia and NZ. >>

Keep on dreaming hispanic fanatic because French is required in every school in English Canada the moment they entere the school for the very first day. So, what made you say that Spanish is more studdied that French when Spanish is just on of the otions for foreign language study in Canada?

Haven't you learned about the French immerson program in English Canada where the student's are native English speakers but when they go to school, the medium of instructions to teach the subjects is entirely in French? They prefer this program becuase the results show that the students do well better than those who study in an ordinary school.

French is stillvery much prefered in Ireland. Like England, the most admired language and practical fro them to take is French not Spanish.

Spanish, is not growing in Australia, NZ and Ireland. If there are languages tht they would study instead of French, that would only Japanese or other languages but definitely French would still get the lion's share and Spanish would get the vulture's share. Bwahahahahahahahaha!
Guest   Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:15 am GMT
<<And when the Hispanic fanatics say that nobody speaks French in Francophone Africa, How can you justify this? Ib the first place they were the ones who started this.>>

Still you haven't bought a brain to don't repeat what I write? and yes, nobody speak French in Africa as mother tongue, how long you need to assimilate?

<<where nobody speaks Castellano Spanish as their mother tongue>>

Ohhh i agree with you!!!!!!!!!!

In Latin America people speak Spanish, NOT Castellano Spanish, this is true!!!!!

Castellano is only another form of Spanish like Argentina Spanish, Colombia Spanish, Panama Spanish or Ecuador Spanish. But do you know what? All of them can speak and understand between them with Spanish. How long you need to assimilate?
Guest   Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:18 am GMT
I forgot to write that now, this person that doesn't have brain will repeat my post after changing a few words
Guest   Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:09 pm GMT
BTW, we don't really refer to ourselves as "Anglophones"

We're "English speakers"

Please call us that, Thanks
Guest   Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:22 pm GMT
<< Castellano is only another form of Spanish like Argentina Spanish, Colombia Spanish, Panama Spanish or Ecuador Spanish. But do you know what? All of them can speak and understand between them with Spanish. How long you need to assimilate? >>

Still you haven't bought a brain to don't repeat what I write? and yes, nobody speak Spanish in Hispanic America as mother tongue, and it's breaking up into numerous neo-hispanic languages like Romance langauges from Latin and Afrikaans from Dutch. How long you need to assimilate?
Guest   Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:23 pm GMT
I forgot to write that now, this person that doesn't have brain will post non-sense in this forum and without any basis at all.
Guest   Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:24 pm GMT
THIS THREAD IS IDEAL FOR THE ARTICLE BELOW.

The Twelve Most Useful Second Languages for English Speakers

When the world talks about science, culture, economy or politics, it speaks English. English speakers don’t really need a second language at all. So, what’s the use of a second language when the first one is enough? English speakers can look for the luxury items: cultural and linguistic enrichment. In this article, I will evaluate the world’s major languages for their usefulness to English speakers, according to three different criteria:

1. Demographics: Opportunity to use the language actively: the number of native and second language speakers, and the chances of communicating with them in this language: use as a lingua franca. It’s not simply a matter of numbers. Mandarin is by far the most spoken language but it is concentrated in one country, China, and that reduces the impact. In the case of Hindi, educated speakers will very likely also speak English, so the opportunity to speak to people in Hindi is greatly reduced.

2. Personal Impact: This subjective criterion looks at the impact on the learner. How does this language study increase the learner’s own sophistication regarding languages, whether English or another, third language? How does this language make the learner a more culturally literate person?

3. Business factors: How will this language open new business and commercial opportunities?

Criterion I. Demographics:
I begin with demographics because this is the criterion that first comes to mind in such a discussion. However, this factor only weighs 40 percent in the ratings, and certain entries here, such as Italian, Swahili and Turkish, will only become understandable when one sees the tables that follow.

1. Spanish: Approx. 350 million natives speakers, with many second language speakers in the Americas, North Africa and elsewhere. It is the official language of about 20 countries. (6 points). It is an important lingua franca in the Western Hemisphere and the Mediterranean, (3 points). (Total: 9 points).

2. French: Despite a relatively small native language base of 130 million, French has a major presence internationally, with a large second language population all over the world and official language status in over 25 countries. It is the working language of many international organizations (4 points). It is also the most recognized lingua franca, after English. (4 points). (Total: 8 points).

3. Arabic: Arabic speakers are hard to quantify. Modern Standard Arabic is a second dialect for 250 million people worldwide, but it is quite difference from the spoken Arabic in each of the 20 countries where it is official. It is an official language of the United Nations and of many international organizations. It is also the language of Islam. (4.5 points). Arabic is a major lingua franca. (2 points). (Total: 6.5 points).

4. Russian: Estimates are as high as 185 million for the native speaking population, and it is the second language in all the nations of the former Soviet Union (3 points). Russia spent much of the Twentieth Century securing the position of its language as the lingua franca in Eastern Europe and Central Asia, and it continues to serve in that capacity, in a greatly diminished way. (2 points). (Total: 5 points).

5. Mandarin: It’s the native language of 875 million people, however, they are concentrated in one country, China. It is a second language for the rest of China, Taiwan, and for Chinese communities world-wide. It has little currency beyond its ethnic boundaries and serves as lingua franca only in this context. (Total: 3 points).

6. German: It has approx. 120 million native speakers and many second language speakers throughout Europe. (2 points). It has had moderate success re-establishing itself as the lingua franca of Central Europe, after the disastrous history of the past century, however, this role has been taken up in the meantime by Russian and English (1 point). (Total: 3 points).

7. Hindustani: It includes Urdu at one end and Hindi at the other, with approx. 185 million native speakers in India, and 50 million in Pakistan. It is a second language for another 180 million people in these country. It has not had success as a lingua franca outside of this context, as that purpose is served by English. It has also been burdened by the reluctance of the Dravidian speaking people of South India to adopt it. (Total: 2.5 points).

8. Swahili: It is spoken natively by 5 million people and by another 50 million as a second language along the East African coast. It’s the official language of Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania (1 point). Swahili is the accepted lingua franca in that area, having achieved nearly neutral "tribal" status on a continent where language is politics, but for dealings with the world beyond, it is normally eclipsed by Arabic, English and French (1.5 points). (Total: 2.5 points).

9. Portuguese: Spoken by approx. 190 million people, it is the official language of Portugal, Brazil, Mozambique, Angola and other states. It has not as yet been able to establish itself as a widely used lingua franca. (Total: 2 points).

10. Turkish: It is spoken by 70 million people in Turkey and Cyprus (1 point). It provides an alternative lingua franca throughout the Turkic speaking lands of Central Asia, replacing the more alien Russian (1 point). (Total: 2 points).

11. Japanese: It is spoken by 125 million people in Japan, but has little currency as a second language or a lingua franca. (Total: 1 point).

12. Italian: It is spoken by 60 million people in Italy, it is also the official language of the Vatican. It has little or no significance as a second language or a lingua franca. (1 point).

Criterion II: Personal Impact:
This is the major consideration for the English speaker. It weighs 40 percent in my ratings. How will the learning of this language help one’s understanding of English? How will knowledge of this language open up a portal to other related languages? For the first question, Latin languages hold a distinct advantage, since the prestige, erudite forms of English are all constructed out of a Latin vocabulary. The second question favors languages which are seen as leading languages in a particular linguistic family, wherever it may be located in the world.

1. French: It holds a particular position among Latin languages, in that it has been the major conduit of Latin vocabulary into English for the past one thousand years. Fully 30 percent of English words come from French, (6 points). In cultural terms, the centrality of France to European civilization cannot be overestimated, adding 6 more points. (Total: 12 points)
2. Spanish: This Latin language has enormous influence on the English of the Americas. It has, in turn, been influenced by Arabic and the indigenous languages of pre-Columbian America, giving insight into those languages. (4 points). Spanish culture continues to move into the forefront of Western civilization, ironically, often because of the patronage of its greatest rival, North American English (4 points). (Total: 8 points).

3. Italian: It is the direct descendant of Latin. Thus, a knowledge of Italian gives the learner an exceptionally clear idea of the classical language. By the same token, it is the central romance language, and the study of a second or third romance language is greatly facilitated when the first one learned is Italian. (4 points). Italian also opens up a store of cultural knowledge dating back two thousand years, and representing, with the Roman Empire, the Catholic tradition and the Italian Renaissance, some of the very highest achievements of European civilization. (4 points). (Total: 8 points).

4. German: The linguistic significance for English speakers is great. German provides a clear presentation of the Germanic roots of English, and of the syntactic and grammatical logic of the basic English language. As the major Germanic language it can also be considered a portal to other Germanic languages such as Dutch and Yiddish. (4 points). German culture is also greatly appreciated in Western culture, and its philosophers and artists are key figures. (2 points). (Total: 6 points).

5. Arabic: Although the immediate linguistic impact of the study of Arabic may be hard to discern for the English speaker, the benefits of Arabic in the study of other languages is high. Arabic has greatly influenced other languages of the Middle East and the Muslim world in religion, politics, and social life. Also, the study of the Arabic alphabet opens the way to many other languages, such as Persian, Urdu, Kurdish, etc. (3 points). Arabic culture has had major influence on western civilization but it remains largely unknown in the English speaking world. Knowledge of the language also leads to a greater understanding of Islam. (2 points). (Total: 5 points).

6. Hindustani: In its Hindi form, it is a window on the origins of the larger Indo-European language family with its Sanskrit vocabulary. As Urdu, it gives a significant introduction to many Persian and Arabic terms. Urdu also uses the Persian form of Arabic script, opening the way to wider studies. It is a starting point for the study of other languages of the subcontinent, an area rich in languages. (3 points). India’s rich culture has become more familiar in the English speaking world, in large part due to India’s ability to project its image through English. However, Hindustani language and Hindi culture are also spread through the Bollywood film industry. Pakistan has yet to make its presence felt, but the potential is there. (2 point). (Total: 5 points).

7. Russian: It has not had major influence in the west, given its geographical isolation. It is, however, the major Slavic language, and as such, opens the way to many other Eastern European languages. The Cyrillic alphabet, moreover, is a tremendous asset for reading many of those languages. (2 points). Russian high culture thrived under both tsarism and communism, and it has a significant place in European civilization. (2 points). (Total: 4 points).

8. Portuguese: As a Latin language, Portuguese has a built-in significance for English speakers, even without a direct relationship with English. (3 points). The cultural significance of Brazil, one of the largest nations of the Americas, is continually growing. (1 point). (Total: 4 points).

9. Mandarin: The official Chinese language has had very little influence on English. It has influenced other national languages of the areas, such as Korean and Japanese, and the other "dialects" of China. The Chinese written characters are the same for all of these dialects, and many of these characters are used in Japanese as well. (2 points). Chinese culture, with over two thousand years of history, is quite significant, if not directly applicable to English speaking civilization. (1.5 point). (Total: 3.5 points).

10. Swahili: As the only sub-Saharan language in the group, it serves to introduce the learner to one of the richest linguistic areas of the Earth. It is from the Bantu family of languages, but it incorporates many words from Arabic, Persian, English and French. (1.5 points). It is the language of trade along the East African coast, and as such, is richly descriptive of the culture there. The West African diaspora into the Americas is one of the great mass migrations of the past 500 years, but because of its tragic social dynamics, it has left many millions of people cut off from African culture. Swahili, although it is East African and not West African, can help to fill that gap. (1.5 points). (Total: 3 points).

11. Turkish: Though it has little direct relationship to English, it is the major language of a family of languages that extend eastward to the Chinese interior. It has been influenced by Persian, Kurdish and Arabic, and thus gives some introduction to those languages. (1.5 points). It also represents the culture of the Ottoman traditions, and of modern Turkey and Central Asian Turkistan. (1 point). (Total: 2.5 points).

12. Japanese: This language has had little impact on English and it provides little insight into other languages. It does, however, include many words from Chinese, and uses numerous Chinese characters. (0.5 points). This island nation has been one of the most successful exporters of culture of the Far East during the past century. (1.5 points). (Total: 2 points).

Criterion III. Economic Impact.
Is this language useful in the world of commerce and business? Certainly English is by far the most useful language for business, but a knowledge of other key languages can be a distinct advantage. Twenty percent in the ratings:

1. French: has a long history as a language of commerce and trade. It is extremely important in the developing world, especially Africa. France itself is the world’s sixth largest economy. (4 points).
2. Spanish: the language of commerce and trade in Latin America. Spain is the world’s ninth largest economy and Mexico is its fourteenth largest. (4 points).
3. German: often used for business in Central Europe. Germany is the world’s third largest economy. (3 points).
4. Japanese: can be extremely helpful in dealing with Japanese business. Japan is the world’s second largest economy. (3 points).
5. Mandarin: China has recently become the world’s fourth largest economy, and it continues to grow. (3 points).
6. Russian: Used in a part of the world where English is not well-known. Russia is the eleventh largest economy and is moving up in the rankings. (2 points).
7. Portuguese: Brazil is the tenth largest economy, and continues to grow. (2 points).
8. Arabic: the language of commerce and trade for the Middle East and the Persian Gulf. (2 points).
9. Hindustani: is used in the world’s twelfth largest economy, however, English is often the language of business in this area. (2 points).
10. Italian: is the language of commerce in Italy, the world’s seventh largest economy. (1.5 points).
11. Swahili: is the language of business along the east coast of Africa. (1 point).
12. Turkish: is used in the world’s seventeenth largest economy, and to some extent in Central Asia. (1 point).

By these criteria we can come up with a ranking of the 12 most useful languages for an English speaker to learn:

1. French: 24 points
2. Spanish 21 points
3. Arabic 13.5 points
4. German 12 points
5. Russian 11 points
6. Italian 10.5 points
7. Hindustani 9.5 points
8. Mandarin 9.5 points
9. Portuguese 8 points
10. Swahili 6.5 points
11. Japanese 5.5 points
12. Turkish 5.5 points

Some readers may be familiar with George Weber’s well-known piece entitled, Top Languages, which first appeared in the journal Languages Today in 1997. His study rated languages according to their influence in world affairs and world culture. It is interesting, at this point to compare them. Here are Weber’s results:

1. English 37 points
2. French 23
3. Spanish 20
4. Russian 16
5. Arabic 14
6. Chinese 13
7. German 12
8. Japanese 10
9. Portuguese 10
10. Hindi/Urdu 9 pts.

The rankings are similar, with some major differences. My criteria are based on tangible and intangible benefits for the English speaker which are not heavily weighed in Weber’s paradigm. Thus, this subjective focus skewers my results in favor of European languages due to the cultural affinity of English for the languages of Western civilization.

Heritage Languages:
The most striking example of a difference is my ranking of Italian as number 6, whereas it does not figure in Weber’s top ten. My justification for Italian is the phenomenon of the "heritage language", i.e., a language that has usefulness in our understanding and appreciation of the past, rather than in the future. Italian is the vehicle for our understanding of ancient history, the development of Latin languages, Renaissance Art and classical music. It is also the ancestral language of at least 60 million people strategically placed in both North and South America. For these reasons, it is the heritage language par excellence. Other languages that benefit from this heritage factor in my listings are German and Swahili.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/the-twelve-most-useful-second-languages-for-english-speakers.html
Guest   Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:15 pm GMT
Based on the point totals, it looks like Spanish and french are pretty close in usefulness. This means that geographic factors might become the deciding factor -- French in Britain, and Canada, and perhaps small parts of the US, with Spanish in the rest of the US.
Guest   Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:55 am GMT
<<Still you haven't bought a brain to don't repeat what I write? and yes, nobody speak Spanish in Hispanic America as mother tongue, and it's breaking up into numerous neo-hispanic languages like Romance langauges from Latin and Afrikaans from Dutch. How long you need to assimilate?>>

Fuck fanatic....


stops getting MDM into your body
Gue$+   Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:29 am GMT
<< BTW, we don't really refer to ourselves as "Anglophones"
We're "English speakers"
Please call us that, Thanks >>

Fuck you, I'll call you whatever the fuck I want.
Go learn a foreign language.
Guest   Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:19 am GMT
<< Still you haven't bought a brain to don't repeat what I write? and yes, nobody speak French in Africa as mother tongue, how long you need to assimilate? >>


Fuck fanatic....


stops getting MDM into your body
Guest   Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:24 am GMT
<< Based on the point totals, it looks like Spanish and french are pretty close in usefulness. This means that geographic factors might become the deciding factor -- French in Britain, and Canada, and perhaps small parts of the US, with Spanish in the rest of the US. >>

Yeah, but when you add their usefulness in 2nd/foreign language speakers, science, technology, literature, arts, and culture, Spanish will surely left behind by French and it will slip to from the 2nd to a lower spot.
Morticia   Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:36 pm GMT
If technology, arts and science are considered, France is less useful than Javanese and Tamil, because the most populated Francophone country, Congo, lacks technology and arts. They are so poor that eat to each other. Haute cuissine. Bon apetit. unga unga!
Guest   Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:10 pm GMT
"... the most populated Francophone country, Congo... "

Actually, France is the most populated country.
It has 2 million more than Congo.
Broomhilda   Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:31 am GMT
If technology, arts and science are considered, Spain is less useful than Hottentot and Hiri Motu, because the most populated Hispanic country, Mexico, lacks technology and arts. They are so poor that eat to each other. Alta Cusina. Buen apetito. caramba caramba!