The influence of others languages

Ralf   Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:18 am GMT
The question i s this:

Do you think that the influence of other languages or dialects in one language enriches or impoverishes a language?

For example:

German have words from: English, Dutch,etc.....

English have words from: French, German, Spanish, Latin, etc....

Spanish have words from: Latin, French English, Arabic German,etc....

PLEASE I DON'T WANT THAT ANYBODY TO FIGTH, OK?
Guest   Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:41 am GMT
In the long run I suppose it enriches it, but that doesn't stop new loan words grating the ears.
Guest   Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:35 pm GMT
Ralf, bist Du Deutscher?

I think, it enriches it, if the words from the other languages are really needed because of a lack of words for new concepts in the target language. If they're just to replace already existing words, than that's not so good. You also may try to coin native words for the new concepts, but on certain fields, especially science (especially computer sciene and internet terms), where there is already international (i.e. English) termiology making native terms (especially if practical any of the speakers of that language knows English) is somewhat ridiculous.

For a somewhat different opinion, see here www.vrs-ev.de and here http://www.deutsche-sprachwelt.de/

Also see here www.sprachforschung.org
Guest   Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:26 pm GMT
Ralf, here's another link which might be of interest to you http://www.sprachpflege.info/index.php/Hauptseite
Guest   Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:57 pm GMT
Of course it enriches it, this kind of loan is usually true when it comes to fruits or animal names, recently when it comes to electronic things. So it's kind of stupid to just create a new name for something you never saw or didn't exist in your culture yet just to be "original".
Guest   Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:19 pm GMT
<<Of course it enriches it, this kind of loan is usually true when it comes to fruits or animal names, recently when it comes to electronic things. So it's kind of stupid to just create a new name for something you never saw or didn't exist in your culture yet just to be "original". >>

Sometimes it's necessary. In French "computer" would sound like two bad words: "con" and "pute". That's why "ordinateur" was coined by IBM France.
Guest   Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:31 pm GMT
It's funny that the French had to invent a new word when the word "compute" itself came from French.
Breiniak   Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:43 am GMT
French is such a cool language when it comes to profanity. Reminds me of the Toyota MR2, bad namechoice if you're aiming at the French autosale market. :p
Guest   Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:27 am GMT
Compute comes from latin computāre.
we have the word 'computar' in spanish. In LatinAmerica they use the word 'computadora' but in Spain we use the word 'ordenador' which comes from 'ordinateur' for the same reason.
Guest   Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:32 am GMT
I don't know why.

It is different "computadora" and "Con la puta Dora" :)
PARISIEN   Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:53 am GMT
<< Sometimes it's necessary. In French "computer" would sound like two bad words: "con" and "pute". That's why "ordinateur" was coined by IBM France. >>

Pure légende urbaine:
1. Des milliers de mots français comprennent ces syllabes sans qu'on y pense à mal,
2. La réalité est que IBM France estimait que "computeur" réduisait le rôle d'un ordinateur à celui d'un calculateur, et a cherché un concept plus valorisant exprimant la capacité à effectuer des opérations logiques, donc à ordonner des données, d'où finalement "ordinateur".
Guest   Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:18 pm GMT
<<La réalité est que IBM France estimait que "computeur" réduisait le rôle d'un ordinateur à celui d'un calculateur, et a cherché un concept plus valorisant exprimant la capacité à effectuer des opérations logiques, donc à ordonner des données, d'où finalement "ordinateur". >>

After a quick search, I must admit you're right. I had bad sources. Here's an accurate one: http://www.languefrancaise.net/news/index.php?id_news=253
This is indeed a better reason, and proves even further the point of coining new words.
Guest   Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:13 pm GMT
When the word from another language merely swaps out the existing word, it is not enriched...it is a one for one swap

When the new word assumes certain senses of the original word WITHOUT ousting the original word, then it enriches, but usually, the original word becomes so narrow in sense that it eventually (though not always) loses out...in the end

If one language has several words that are all derivatives of a single root or word (like Spanish "bueno"/"bonito"/"bonulo"/"bondad"/"boneco"/etc from Latin bon-), then swapping any one of them out enriches, because all of those words sound alike and it's easy to see that they are basically the same word reused.