Hmm... While I myself really dislike many aspects of the South from a political standpoint, I really do not perceive Southern dialects as sounding bad in and of themselves. If anything, I perceive them as being rather clear as a whole while not sounding painfully boring as General American-like dialects sound to me. (They are definitely much clearer to my ears than my own dialect, which can honestly be quite muddled-sounding in its elision-and-assimilation-happy form as spoken by many younger people.)
The sounds of American English
Uriel : « Hee hee -- you hate to post in English on this forum, and I hate X-Sampa -- we all have our little foibles, don't we? ;P ».
Touché ! Mais quand même, jette un petit coup d'œil sur ces pages : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-SAMPA & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_phonology .
Je sais : c'est horrible et disgracieux... Mais je t'assure que ça en vaut la peine.
Et je suis certain que tu obtiendras l'aide enthousiaste de tous les agoristes phonophiles d'Antimoon — notamment Travis, Lazar et ton humble serviteur.
;)
Touché ! Mais quand même, jette un petit coup d'œil sur ces pages : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-SAMPA & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_phonology .
Je sais : c'est horrible et disgracieux... Mais je t'assure que ça en vaut la peine.
Et je suis certain que tu obtiendras l'aide enthousiaste de tous les agoristes phonophiles d'Antimoon — notamment Travis, Lazar et ton humble serviteur.
;)
Travis,
What's your own dialect?
By the way, I find your comment about the boredom of General American quite interesting. It sort of takes me by surprise. I had never heard a comment like that about GAE.
So you tune in on, say, CNN American Edition and you find the newscasters' pronunciation boring?
I totally agree about the Southern drawl. It's perfectly understandable and pleasant to my ear.
Achab (an ESLer)
What's your own dialect?
By the way, I find your comment about the boredom of General American quite interesting. It sort of takes me by surprise. I had never heard a comment like that about GAE.
So you tune in on, say, CNN American Edition and you find the newscasters' pronunciation boring?
I totally agree about the Southern drawl. It's perfectly understandable and pleasant to my ear.
Achab (an ESLer)
Travis,
Never mind. I took a further peek at your older postings and saw you're in Wisconsin.
Best,
Achab
Never mind. I took a further peek at your older postings and saw you're in Wisconsin.
Best,
Achab
>>Never mind. I took a further peek at your older postings and saw you're in Wisconsin.<<
I must say that I am from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, as there are significant variations in dialect within Wisconsin. For instance, the dialects spoken in northern Wisconsin are quite different than those spoken in southeastern Wisconsin; in this context, for instance, they completely lack the severe elision and assimilation often found in everyday speech by younger people here in southeastern Wisconsin.
I must say that I am from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, as there are significant variations in dialect within Wisconsin. For instance, the dialects spoken in northern Wisconsin are quite different than those spoken in southeastern Wisconsin; in this context, for instance, they completely lack the severe elision and assimilation often found in everyday speech by younger people here in southeastern Wisconsin.
>>Would a Californian speaker find your accent weird?<<
Almost certainly yes; hell, many people have said that I have a very strong/weird/foreign-sounding accent from my speech samples that are floating out there, even though I natively speak an English dialect...
Almost certainly yes; hell, many people have said that I have a very strong/weird/foreign-sounding accent from my speech samples that are floating out there, even though I natively speak an English dialect...
Travis, could you please submit a recording of your accent? Or else direct me to another topic with your recording? I'd love to hear this accent. Could you also give me some examples of this rampant elision/assimilation?
↑"Social connotations of an accent really have no influence whatsoever on how you will perceive it, it is pretty obvious from you last sentence..."
Guest, I won't deny that; the different social classes in the South seem to speak differing varieties of Southern American Speech. It's a variance more pronounced, in my opinion, than the different class distinctions in General American Speech.
To my mind, the upper-class varieties are more pleasant to hear, but I think it relates to the actual sound of those dialects. Why the Upper Class speaks the more pleasant varieties is a question I cannot answer.
Guest, I won't deny that; the different social classes in the South seem to speak differing varieties of Southern American Speech. It's a variance more pronounced, in my opinion, than the different class distinctions in General American Speech.
To my mind, the upper-class varieties are more pleasant to hear, but I think it relates to the actual sound of those dialects. Why the Upper Class speaks the more pleasant varieties is a question I cannot answer.
For an example of how I often actually speak, go to:
http://media.putfile.com/Unscripted-rambling-in-Milwaukee-dialect
And as for examples, I mentioned a good few examples of such elision in a previous post in response to greg.
Likewise, for assimilation, there are a number of very common assimilations into geminates, such as:
/st/ > [sʲː] : "mister" [ˈmɪsʲːʁ̩ː]
/dl/ > [ɰˡː] : "Adler" (a last name) [ˈɛ̯æɰˡːʁ̩ː]
/d(V)n/ > [n:] : "good night" [ˌgʊːnˈnə̆ĕ̯ʔ]
/dk/ > [k:] : "vodka" [ˈvaːkːəː]
/ddʒ/ > [d̥ʒː] : "suggest" [səːˈd̥ʒːɜsʲtʲ] / [səːˈd̥ʒːɜsʲː]
/b(V)m/ > [m:] : "problem" [ˈpʰʁɑːmː]
/nd/ > [n:] : "finding" [ˈfãẽ̯nːɨ̃ːŋ] (as well as [ˈfãẽ̯ɨ̃ːŋ])
http://media.putfile.com/Unscripted-rambling-in-Milwaukee-dialect
And as for examples, I mentioned a good few examples of such elision in a previous post in response to greg.
Likewise, for assimilation, there are a number of very common assimilations into geminates, such as:
/st/ > [sʲː] : "mister" [ˈmɪsʲːʁ̩ː]
/dl/ > [ɰˡː] : "Adler" (a last name) [ˈɛ̯æɰˡːʁ̩ː]
/d(V)n/ > [n:] : "good night" [ˌgʊːnˈnə̆ĕ̯ʔ]
/dk/ > [k:] : "vodka" [ˈvaːkːəː]
/ddʒ/ > [d̥ʒː] : "suggest" [səːˈd̥ʒːɜsʲtʲ] / [səːˈd̥ʒːɜsʲː]
/b(V)m/ > [m:] : "problem" [ˈpʰʁɑːmː]
/nd/ > [n:] : "finding" [ˈfãẽ̯nːɨ̃ːŋ] (as well as [ˈfãẽ̯ɨ̃ːŋ])
<<Why the Upper Class speaks the more pleasant varieties is a question I cannot answer.>>
Most probably the varieties spoken by the upper class are perceived as more pleasant because the are spoken by the upper class, it's really as simple as that. Pretty much the same is true in other countries as well. And that also explains why foreigners don't perceive the accent the way locals do: because they are unaware of its social connotations.
Most probably the varieties spoken by the upper class are perceived as more pleasant because the are spoken by the upper class, it's really as simple as that. Pretty much the same is true in other countries as well. And that also explains why foreigners don't perceive the accent the way locals do: because they are unaware of its social connotations.
the guy from milwaukee in that recording sounds like michael jackson...
Travis mentioned that some perceive his dialect as sounding foreign or unusual, and I must say that I receive similar feedback in regards to my own dialect from individuals on a day-to-day basis. On many occasions, I have been in a room full of native Westerners (primarily Californians), and they were almost always perplexed by my dialect features.
Mind you, most of the people I know have a very limited knowledge of dialects, but they tend to notice features such as the unmerged lot-thought vowel, the lot-cloth split, the monophthongal long O, and the very distinct Northern Cities Vowel Shift. I have the first two stages of the NCVS, but I do not have the third. I also lack the mirror-nearer merger, but that is not a Northern Cities feature.
Mind you, most of the people I know have a very limited knowledge of dialects, but they tend to notice features such as the unmerged lot-thought vowel, the lot-cloth split, the monophthongal long O, and the very distinct Northern Cities Vowel Shift. I have the first two stages of the NCVS, but I do not have the third. I also lack the mirror-nearer merger, but that is not a Northern Cities feature.
Travis, at first I can't even understand you. The first bit doesn't even sound like English. I'm from Pennsylvania and I never would have guessed that I'd ever have trouble understanding a fellow American. It almost sounds as if you have a speech impediment. No offense meant at all. But I'm sure you must get reactions like this quite often.
The first thing I can understand is:
"...less formal than what I've put up as examples..."
The first thing I can understand is:
"...less formal than what I've put up as examples..."
The first bit is a rather mumbled in that example, yes. As for said "speech impediment", what you are just hearing is my pronunciation of historical /l/, which has become a velar approximant, which may or may not be lateralized, or a (unrounded or rounded) near-close back vowel (syllabic or not), depending on position and stress. I am perfectly capable of articulating [l] (such as when speaking German) and [ɫ], but they just are not native phones in my dialect.