Politeness in Languages

Do you agree with this list? Add more if you'd like!

ENGLISH: It can be polite in regards to titles such as Doctor, Professor, etc. Still, there is not any way to differentiate grammar when speaking to specific people except for changing a few words around. When words are changed around, it can sometimes come out as really fake (at least people I've known).

JAPANESE: A very politeness-influenced language. Suffixes such as -san and -sama denote how one stands in society.

CHINESE: Polite forms seem to be nearly non-existent. "Nin" for you is one of the exceptions, although not very many people seem to use it.

THAI: There is a whole different way when speaking about Thai royalty. In general, the language can be spoken in a very polite way.

FRENCH: Use of the "Vous" form of verbs is highly important in France. Using the "Tu" form can be considered disrespectful.

SPANISH: While the "Usted" form may be used, it is not really necessary in any Spanish-speaking countries. The "Tu" form seems to be acceptable.

ITALIAN: While the "Lei" form of verbs may used, it does not seem to be necessary. Like Spanish, most people will not be too upset if you use the "Tu" form.

"ITALIAN: While the "Lei" form of verbs may used, it does not seem to be necessary. Like Spanish, most people will not be too upset if you use the "Tu" form."

Not corret: in formal situation or with people that you don't know, is considered disrespectful to use "Tu" form.

I don't mean to say that Japanese is not an extremely politeness-based language, but your description of it is far too barebones. To someone who knows little about Japanese, it does nothing to explain why it's more polite than English, which has roughly equivalent titles to -san(Mr.) and -sama (Lord).

<<JAPANESE: A very politeness-influenced language. Suffixes such as -san and -sama denote how one stands in society.>>

Is ''how one stands in society'' the only aspect of politeness?

<<I don't mean to say that Japanese is not an extremely politeness-based language, but your description of it is far too barebones. To someone who knows little about Japanese, it does nothing to explain why it's more polite than English, which has roughly equivalent titles to -san(Mr.) and -sama (Lord).>>

I agree. It would be more helpful if he also explained that Japanese has different verb conjugations for polite speech (desu/masu), words and verb forms that indicate respect (尊敬語) or humility (謙譲語), pronouns which indicate differing levels of politeness, and a prefix to make words polite (御).

>>ENGLISH: It can be polite in regards to titles such as Doctor, Professor, etc. Still, there is not any way to differentiate grammar when speaking to specific people except for changing a few words around. When words are changed around, it can sometimes come out as really fake (at least people I've known).<<

Things are not nearly that simple in reality. For starters, one will very commonly have significant changes in things such as cliticization, syntax, vocabulary (and not just the use or non-use of literary words but the choices in grammar words), and intonation between lower and higher registers. Hell, I myself will at times switch sharply and completely between my native dialect and an almost deliberately artificial sort of General American when I want to set apart my normal speech with a specifically higher form of such (even though such often reflects things such as sarcasm or intentionally showing social distance on my part).

DUTCH:
'U' is the polite form. Especially in business letters it's used, and towards customers in a store etc, to people who're older than you and to people who you dont know.

'Jij' is usually used if the person you're speaking to is known'to you, and in when the person you're speaking to is younger than you are.

GERMAN:
I guess it's about the same as here, however I have the feeling 'Sie' is used more in informal things. 'Du' can be disrepectful.

I lived for some time in the American South East and was suprised by the usage of polite titles: "sir" and "ma'am"(I guess southernized form of "madam") as I had never experienced this with English. They were very strict about it- I reguarly saw parents scolding children about it, and I was given the impression that it is a major faux pas not to use these terms with elder people, proffesors, or work superiors.

Well, yes, people in Hong Kong have practically no idea about Vous and Tu in register. In the subtitles on TV, they even use Tu to address any official, legislator, the principal, the doctor........practically everyone by Tu (and so to Hu Jintao). In this respect, the writers of subtitles are to blame. Actually, even though a scene like:

(Sichuan earthquake surviving children greeting to Hu as a grandfather, to be respectful and to be affectionate): Grandfather Hu, nin hao!

The subtitles still put it as "Tu", but the kids (Sichuan speaks Mandarin) are actually saying "Vous".

What's the reason? I think for Cantonese speakers... they know Vous and Tu, but Vous and Tu are homophones (this is NOT the case in Mandarin).

In Mandarin, you say Vous to an elderly person when you offer your seat to him/her; you say Vous to officials, doctors, your boss... I'm not native, but I believe this almost corresponds to how you use Vous and Tu, tho not quite.

==

At least in places where people say Nin, you can't be wrong thru speaking in the German style (i.e. to use Nin like Sie). But I think, at least, the Chinese I've met so far aren't (weren't) that strict with "Sie". Some scholars actually prefer that you call them Mr/Ms Something to Doctor Something, or even Something (their whole name).

(Then, I was perplexed when some of us asked some German scholars to accept "du".... how to call a German scholar "du, Doktor XXX"? But then somebody I knew couldn't understand why some Germans, ironically, insist on the Sie form, and they seemed unsatisfied with this)

There is something more. For one thing, in fact, not even "Sie" is used that much in formal contexts. Traditional Chinese (I mean, older and formal language) DOESN'T address another person as "you" that much. We can omit pronouns, and in fact, in this context, older people don't like referring to another directly (by "you"). That is to say, in formal language, I say "delighted to be praised/to be promoted", but not "I AM delighted to be praised/to be promoted", etc. The context will show clearly that you are delighted. Similarly, in daily written language, I don't see that much use of "you" in instructions. In English, they say "You're welcome to use our product; you should use it like this..."; the Chinese write "Welcome to use our product, it should be used like this...".

For another, while people don't use "Sie" to senior relatives like the Germans, it's a faux pas to call any senior people (relatives, the parents of your classmates/your significant others, your older neighbors, your older bosses) by their name. Recently, one of my senior relatives... well, passes away, and I never knew (if at all) his name until I asked my parents. Senior relatives won't even expect that you know their names; you should consult your parents/some other relatives. Only their identity is important. I don't call most of my relatives by name. But on the other hand, senior relatives never call younger ones by their ranking. It's too formal to call your grandchild "grandchild" - call him/her his/her name instead.

>>I'm not native, but I believe this almost corresponds to how you use Vous and Tu, tho not quite.

They do drop Vous in some cases, but not all.

>>it's a faux pas to call any senior people ... by their name.

We don't usually have something like Onkel Kurt/Uncle George. This depends on conventions. My parents' friends usually ask me to call them Uncle/Aunt Something, and so are the friends of some others, say my aunt. Since a lot of women don't like becoming an aunt (unless she does become one, like if her sibling has a child), which sounds too old, younger ones also prefer "Sister"; I called an aunt as "Sister", as the girlfriend of my uncle, until they married.

Em, yeah, I don't call a true senior relative by his/her name, except a couple of them.

Do they really use the french ''tu'' and ''vous'' in Hong Kong?

in Continental Portuguese people will find impolite if you use você to them, they accept only tu (which is very informal) and o senhor (which is very informal)


In Brazilian Portuguese, você is the universal form, just like you in English, it can be both formal and informal. o senhor is formal, but it's not obrigatory, even professors and people you don't know are fine with você now (it wasn't like this until 60ies).
tu is used only in some regions of Brazil and its use can be very informal but some people consider it impolite and ugly, in regions where tu is archaic, it can be even an insult, TU in Brazil it's like VOS in Chile and Bolivia, it's slangy and with low prestige, it's not like VOS in Argentina.

in Continental Portuguese people will find impolite if you use você to them, they accept only tu (which is very informal) and o senhor (which is very formal)


In Brazilian Portuguese, você is the universal form, just like you in English, it can be both formal and informal. o senhor is formal, but it's not obligatory, even professors and people you don't know are fine with você now (it wasn't like this until 60ies).
tu is used only in some regions of Brazil and its use can be very informal but some people consider it impolite and ugly, in regions where tu is archaic, it can be even an insult, as if someone were joking you; TU in Brazil it's like VOS in Chile and Bolivia, it's slangy and with low prestige, it's not like VOS in Argentina.



Brazil: você (neutral), o senhor (very formal), tu (informal in regions where it's used, formal to jokingly/insult in regions where it's archaic)

Portugal: o senhor (very formal), tu (informal) [você is rarely used, mainly in TV shows, quiz etc people don't like it]

''Do they really use the french ''tu'' and ''vous'' in Hong Kong? ''


TU and VOUS are linguistic terms, used in comparative linguistics,
Tu or L (low) stands for informal register/pronoun, Vous or H (High) stands for formal register/pronoun.

<< "ITALIAN: While the "Lei" form of verbs may used, it does not seem to be necessary. Like Spanish, most people will not be too upset if you use the "Tu" form."

Not corret: in formal situation or with people that you don't know, is considered disrespectful to use "Tu" form. >>

-- Alessandro is right. Italians are very formal. Even more than the French or Germans.

Most complicated situation is in Sweden. For centuries people used to address superiors with their title (doktorn, professorn, direktören etc.). As a result, the supposedly polite pronoun "ni" (= Fr. 'vous') sounded rather disrespectful because it pointed at the fact the other person had no usable title whatsoever.

Therefore, complicated impersonal forms had to be used to avoid misunderstandings. Instead of asking "will you have more coffee?", a Swede typically said "önskas mer kaffe?", i.e. "is more coffee desired?"

In the late 60's the socialist government decided to ban the ambiguous "ni" pronoun and to declare "du" mandatory in all circumstances, even when addressing the King. This was supposed to be a good fit to a country notoriously obsessed with social equality.

Strangely, the officially banned pronoun "ni" is slowly coming back. Young employees in Stockholm's routinely use it now with patrons.