G-sound in ''finger''

Brennus   Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:48 am GMT
Ulster Man ,

If fiN@ (fin-uh) is the way you pronounce the word then it would be an example of what is called "assimilation" in linguistics with the 'g' sound being assimilated into the 'n'. The same thing happens in some German words like hun'ert (hunger) and hun'ert (hundred) even though spelled Hunderd and Hunger.

By the way, Ulster (Old Irish Uladh) is not in Scotland but is the name for all of northern Ireland. Much of it was once united with western Scotland in a kingdom caled "Dalriada" but that was over 1,000 years ago.
Kirk   Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:39 am GMT
<<That's why you're being lazy.>>

Eye-roll.

<<If fiN@ (fin-uh) is the way you pronounce the word then it would be an example of what is called "assimilation" in linguistics with the 'g' sound being assimilated into the 'n'. The same thing happens in some German words like hun'ert (hunger) and hun'ert (hundred) even though spelled Hunderd and Hunger.>>

Well, you're quite right in that assimilation does occur (the influence of the /g/ as a velar stop makes the previous nasal alveolar stop assimilate to the velar pronunciation). However, in this instance the historical /g/ has been dropped while the already-assimilated /n/ has been reanalyzed as phonemically significant, thus it's experienced phonemicization with the absence of /g/. As you correctly point out, this is what happened in words like German "Hunger," pronounced ["hUN6], compared with most English dialects which have ["hVNg@`] for "hunger." By the way, if anyone's interested, this word came from Proto-Germanic *khungrus.
Brennus   Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:58 am GMT
Should be Hunger /hun'er/, Hundert /hunert/ in German. I made a slight error in my previous post.

Kirk,

'Assimilation' sounds like something that's in your field of study. The few examples I've seen of it are from Dutch and German. I think partly because most linguists have been Europeans. However a meticulous study of assimilation would probably turn up examples from all over the world.
Kirk   Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:17 am GMT
Yes, to be specific this is an example of nasal place assimilation, and as you guessed, it's an extremely common phonological process amongst languages in the world (in addition to other kinds of place assimilation).
Guy   Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:21 am GMT
I pronounce it /fINg@`/, and I pronounce the word "singer" as /sIN@`/, so it's contrastive. (Although I believe there is no minimal pairs for this distinction.)

I heard some New Yorkers don't make a distinction, but I'm not sure. All American English speakers I've spoken to make a distinction.
JJM   Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:08 pm GMT
"I myself always pronounce the /g/ in ''finger'. To not pronounce it is plain lazy."

Ah, the "L" word - "lazy." A wholly subjective term which has absolutely no basis or place in linguistic studies.
Ulster Man   Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:36 pm GMT
<<By the way, Ulster (Old Irish Uladh) is not in Scotland but is the name for all of northern Ireland. Much of it was once united with western Scotland in a kingdom caled "Dalriada" but that was over 1,000 years ago.>>

Yeah, that was a joke actually. I just wanted to see who would notice it first. I'm really from Ulster Ireland.
Ulster Man   Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:37 pm GMT
<<If fiN@ (fin-uh) is the way you pronounce the word then it would be an example of what is called "assimilation">>

I don't have /fINg@/ but /fINg@`/. My accent is r-pronouncing.
Robert   Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:06 pm GMT
<<Robert, I should also mention that the sound rule that applies to my dialect does not work across morpheme boundaries. I explain this in full in a chart I made here (I would post it here but antimoon does not support bbcode so I can't show the chart):>>

That's interesting. What you might find interesting is that I have a similar rule in my accent for pronouncing postvocalic /r/. In my accent, the /r/ is pronounced when at the end of a word as in ''car'' /kja:r/ and not pronounced before a consonant as in ''card'' /ka:d/. The sound rule doesn't work across morpheme boundaries as in ''car door''.
Robert   Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:27 pm GMT
I'm from the Caribbean.
Richard   Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:43 pm GMT
<<Ah, the "L" word - "lazy." A wholly subjective term which has absolutely no basis or place in linguistic studies.>>

That's why linguists don't know what they're talking about.
Lazar   Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:32 pm GMT
I pronounce "finger" as [fINg@`], contrasting with "singer" [sIN@`].
Richard   Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:39 pm GMT
<<Eye-roll.>>

You can roll your eyes, but if Robert is not speaking lazily, then why does he say /fIN@`/ instead of /fINg@`/ for ''finger''?
Kenna D   Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:25 pm GMT
FINGER does not rhyme with RINGER!!!!
Robert   Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:29 pm GMT
<<FINGER does not rhyme with RINGER!!!!>>

It does for me.