|
|
Catalan a Frankish-Romance+Gothic-Romance hybrid?
I agree with you. I think that Occitan/Provencal, Catalan and the Gallo Italian dialects are in reallity part of the same linguistic group. All the languages of this group were corrupted by the national states that promoted the languages of Ile de France, Castilla and Tuscany as language of all the rispective nations.
Alessandro puoi dire ciò che vuoi, ma la Padania, tanto cara al tuo amato Bossi, è una pura invenzione degli anni '80. Aggiungerei , inoltre, per fortuna in Italia non si parlano quei dialetti orrendi lombardi; anche se, purtroppo, continuano ogni giorno a contaminare fonologicamente e sintatticamente il bell'idioma italico.
"Alessandro puoi dire ciò che vuoi, ma la Padania, tanto cara al tuo amato Bossi, è una pura invenzione degli anni '80. Aggiungerei , inoltre, per fortuna in Italia non si parlano quei dialetti orrendi lombardi; anche se, purtroppo, continuano ogni giorno a contaminare fonologicamente e sintatticamente il bell'idioma italico."
Io non faccio politica, e nessuno ci ha mai presentati.
<<Occitan should be considered Ibero-Romance too. It shares more similarities with Spanish than with French.>>
These classifications seem so arbitrary. When one reads Occitan, one can see similarities with both French and Spanish... and Italian, and Portugues, and Romanian, and Lombard, and Ligurian, and Sardinian, etc....
L'ombra es la filha de l'ombra
e sa maire primiera
d'ela sortís e dins ela dintra
coma lo riu se pèrd dins l'estelum
abans de tornar secret
dins l'espés escur de sei fònts inabenablas
aquí la vida que comença
còr de fuelhas e d'erbas
aquí la vida que finís
ponh mai que sarrat
sus lei gravetas sens nombre dau temps
l'ombra nais dau gisclar dei fuelhas
maire pus mairala que totei leis ombras mairalas
l'ombra nais e creis
d'un movement tan prim que se'n devinha pas
a paupas
que lo batecòr infinidament minuscul
la lenta butada entre lei peiretas dau còs gigant de la terra
fins au moment
tan prim eu tanben
que de l'abséncia d'ombra
s'enauça e carga sei formas espaurugadas
la debuta d'un còs que dessenhariá quicòm de l'òme
dins la patz sorna dau jorn
français :
L'ombre est la fille de l'ombre
et sa première mère
elle sort d'elle et entre en elle
comme le ruisseau se perd dans les étoiles
avant de revenir caché
dans l'obscur épais de ses sources inépuisables
ici commence la vie
cœur de feuilles et d'herbes
ici finit la vie
poing refermé
sur les graviers sans nombre du temps
l'ombre naît du glissement des feuilles
mère plus maternelle que toutes les ombres maternelles
l'ombre naît et croît
d'un mouvement si léger dont on devine à peine
à tâtons
le battement du coeur infiniment minuscule
la lente poussée entre les petites pierres
[ du corps géant de la terre
jusqu'à l'instant
lui aussi si léger
où de l'absence d'ombre
la naissance d'un corps dessinant peut-être
[ quelque chose de l'homme
s'élève et charge ses formes apeurées
dans la paix ténébreuse du jour
If the linguistis included Catalan in the Ibero-Romance group they may had their reasons, I don't see the role of politics here. it seems a weak argument , Travis.
>>If the linguistis included Catalan in the Ibero-Romance group they may had their reasons, I don't see the role of politics here. it seems a weak argument , Travis.<<
Ugghh.... for starters, "linguists" are by far not one homogeneous group. Just because one group such as, say, SIL (which I suspect you are getting this from) says something does not mean that one they say is absolute truth.
Oh, and, by the way, if you did get this classification from SIL, it should be noted that SIL is not the most credible group when it comes to language classification. There has been quite a few things that they have classified in ways that have been rather controversials amongst linguists overall.
Travis : « I would say that Catalan is an offshoot of Old Occitan, which even today does not differ all too much from Occitan, still being closer to it than to any other Romance language. »
Je plussoie.
je plussoie Qu'est-ce que ça veut dire?
politician Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:32 pm GMT
If the linguistis included Catalan in the Ibero-Romance group they may had their reasons, I don't see the role of politics here. it seems a weak argument , Travis.
_________________
The Iberians were not a clearly defined culture, ethnic group or political entity. The name is instead a blanket term for a number of peoples belonging to a pre-Roman, Iron Age culture inhabiting the Iberian peninsula who have been historically identified as "Iberian". Although these peoples shared certain common features, they were by no means homogeneous and they diverged widely in other respects.
Naming Spanish, Portuguese or Catalan "Ibero-Romance" doesn´t make any sense.
kaka : « je plussoie Qu'est-ce que ça veut dire? ».
Être d'accord. Être du même avis.
Io non faccio politica, e nessuno ci ha mai presentati.
Mi perdoni l'eccessiva confidenza, di certo la prossima volta Le darò del Lei.
Io non faccio politica, e nessuno ci ha mai presentati.
Mi perdoni l'eccessiva confidenza, di certo, la prossima volta, Le darò del Lei.
Kaka, le verbe plussoyer ne s'emploie que sur internet. Pour mieux comprendre son origine je te suggère de lire cette page : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%2B1
(Plussoyer est expliqué dans le dernier paragraphe).
Kaka, le verbe plussoyer ne s'emploie que sur internet.
Voilà pourquoi je l'ai cherché dans mon vieux dictionnaire et ne l'ai pas trouvé :-)
dear Elvissa,
the Internet site you are talking about gives french closer in terms of lexical similarities than with catalan
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=FR
Lexical similarity 89% with Italian, 80% with Sardinian, 78% with Rheto-Romance, 75% with Portuguese, Romanian, and Spanish, 29% with German, 27% with English. Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Italo-Western, Western, Gallo-Iberian, Gallo-Romance, Gallo-Rhaetian, Oïl, French
<<Lexical similarity 89% with Italian, 80% with Sardinian, 78% with Rheto-Romance, 75% with Portuguese, Romanian, and Spanish, 29% with German, 27% with English. Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Italo-Western, Western, Gallo-Iberian, Gallo-Romance, Gallo-Rhaetian, Oïl, French >>
Nico, are these the stats for Catalan or French?
|