Do You Mind Learning Really Inflected Languages?

Iulius   Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:48 pm GMT
Shuimo, I don't know if it was really you who was posting things like "Learn Chinese or die," you're not really making Chinese desirable to learn.

Personally, I think Mandarin sounds ugly. I have absolutely no desire to learn it again (I took a class of it in the past). Latin sounds a million times better; I prefer its grammatical complexity rather than Chinese's thousands of characters.
Xie   Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:29 am GMT
>>I took a class of it in the past

If that's the main reason, I feel sorry for you. Classes suck. Almost always.
Shuimo   Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:17 am GMT
Shuimo Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:41 pm GMT
Learn Chinese or die.
----------------------------

Sh*t!

This fellow who shamelessly wrote under my name at this hour Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:41 pm GMT is cursed to die!

Have I become the icon of your nightmares that drove you to do this?
Shuimo   Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:24 am GMT
<<Iulius Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:48 pm GMT
Shuimo, I don't know if it was really you who was posting things like "Learn Chinese or die," you're not really making Chinese desirable to learn.>>

Good questioning! That son of bitch who did postings like "Learn Chinese or die" should go to hell.

<<Personally, I think Mandarin sounds ugly. I have absolutely no desire to learn it again (I took a class of it in the past). Latin sounds a million times better; I prefer its grammatical complexity rather than Chinese's thousands of characters.>>

One man's cup of tea is another's poison! Fine if you don't like Chinese!

As for Latin, I just want to say even the languages of birds and pigs sound million times better than a dead language, which just lives in the eternal limbo of history's dustins, period! LOL
Iulius   Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:27 am GMT
<<I feel sorry for you.>>

Don't be. I use classes as a way to start languages (I like learning about grammar and such). Besides, don't be so condescending. Everyone learns languages in their own ways. Your way may not be right for every single person.
hispano   Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:28 am GMT
<<a dead language, which just lives in the eternal limbo of history's dustins, period!>>

LOL! Good one! This is the perfect description of Latin, (and French soon, hopefully)!
Iulius   Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:34 am GMT
Latin may be dead, but the history associated with it is far from it. I am not taking Latin to speak it (although I do like speaking it) but am trying to improve my language-learning skills in general as well as possibly being able to read classical writings of Ancient Rome.

Since learning the declensions and conjugations of Latin, I really think it's helped me to overcome that obstacle so that if I did learn another highly inflected language (such as Russian), I wouldn't have such a hard time compared to someone who knows little to nothing about inflection.

I don't need to justify my reasons to anyone, but I felt like sharing.
Shuimo   Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:42 am GMT
<<Iulius Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:34 am GMT
Latin may be dead, but the history associated with it is far from it. I am not taking Latin to speak it (although I do like speaking it) but am trying to improve my language-learning skills in general as well as possibly being able to read classical writings of Ancient Rome.

Since learning the declensions and conjugations of Latin, I really think it's helped me to overcome that obstacle so that if I did learn another highly inflected language (such as Russian), I wouldn't have such a hard time compared to someone who knows little to nothing about inflection.

I don't need to justify my reasons to anyone, but I felt like sharing.>>

Of course, everyone desreves to have his or her own free will!

If someone asks for and enjoys sort of linguistic sadomasochism, what could we do? Just let go! LOL
Iulius   Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:47 am GMT
<<If someone asks for and enjoys sort of linguistic sadomasochism, what could we do? Just let go! LOL>>

If this is the real Shuimo, you're a real prick. Forget about the person impersonating you. Just cos I said Mandarin sounds ugly you're saying very little comes out of learning "dead" yet classic languages? Okay, now...
mystified   Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:03 am GMT
<<Since learning the declensions and conjugations of Latin, I really think it's helped me to overcome that obstacle so that if I did learn another highly inflected language (such as Russian), I wouldn't have such a hard time compared to someone who knows little to nothing about inflection. >>


Well, I respect your decision and I don't doubt that Latin helps learn languages, but I just don't get it when people use that as their only argument for learning it... Why learn Latin to be able to learn Russian? Why not learn Russian to be able to learn Latin? Or the best of all ideas, why not just learn Russian straight off? Not to mention the fact that Latin is probably harder than a lot of modern languages, so it's kind of like learning how to run in order to learn how to walk.
Iulius   Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:24 am GMT
<<Well, I respect your decision and I don't doubt that Latin helps learn languages, but I just don't get it when people use that as their only argument for learning it... Why learn Latin to be able to learn Russian? Why not learn Russian to be able to learn Latin? Or the best of all ideas, why not just learn Russian straight off? Not to mention the fact that Latin is probably harder than a lot of modern languages, so it's kind of like learning how to run in order to learn how to walk.>>

Thanks for the question. If I didn't state it, I'll just now then that the main reason for my learning Latin is because I'm interested in it. Ancient Rome is my favorite time period in all of history. [Classical] Latin is a big part of that.

Also, I'm more interested in the Romance languages in general including Italian, French and Romanian. So, I wanted to get a feel of where exactly they come from.

I am interested in Russian and might learn at a later time but the Romance languages interest me most now. But the first reason I just listed is my primary reason for learning Latin.
purist   Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:06 pm GMT
Poor Chinese, they don't know a thing about Latin and its great authors. Western Culture and society are based on the latin language (along with Greek). The Chinese are so far apart
Language Lover   Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:36 pm GMT
I agree that everyone learns languages in their own way. That's why there are so many people out there trying to make some money off their "way" of learning. It's not "wrong"-it just points to how many ways there are and could be to learn a language.

On the other hand, I don't think these most of "teachers" are altruistic. They are realistic. They love languages, but they want to earn some money. Some people will learn with almost any "system"-it's just a matter of preference. Of course, it's great to have fun, but how many systems can keep up the fun all the way to the intermediate or advanced level? At some point, the learner has to decide whether (s)he
enjoys the language enough to continue.

I have surveyed Latin, but haven't learnt it. Some people think Latin study is the way to learn. I imagine this is because one gets a good grounding in grammar (gggg) and vocabulary that will help with everything from the romance languages, to German and the Slavic languages.

If you want your language to "win", be the kind of person who wins other people by helping them, not by smashing them in the face by saying that their language is ugly or worthless in the world.
Language Lover   Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:46 pm GMT
"Or the best of all ideas, why not just learn Russian straight off?"

This is more the way I think as well, but it isn't the traditional view of people who study languages seriously, I've been told.

I think it must be that people like to have a classical grounding-a foundation for learning other languages. I'm learning Modern Greek now and everyday I see the roots of words in other languages I know. I wonder if learned "backwards" and if it would have been easier if I had started with Greek.
Xie   Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:33 am GMT
>>Everyone learns languages in their own ways. Your way may not be right for every single person.

So I was cautious to write "almost". I'm supposing.

>>so it's kind of like learning how to run in order to learn how to walk.

When it's possible to learn, for example, Russian with enough material for beginners, it shouldn't be a problem. If not, then that's different.

If I want to learn Russian, my English should be OK, but it's of lower priority than French, then I have no choice. After all, I find it very tiresome to learn multiple languages. In general, to start a new language, I suggest mastering all the previous ones to a sufficient level (of at least reading a novel in it, having longer conversations with foreigners, and watching films...). Anglophones normally don't even have to do anything before that, because English is most useful for any foreign language there is. It's meaningful to speak of mastering one only with near-native fluency, I think. If not, it'd be safe to think that you're just dabbling with new languages. Dabbling and mastering are entirely different.