I meant that his LOT vowel (short O) seems to range from /Q:/ (long, open back rounded vowel) to something close to /O/ (open-mid back rounded vowel). I may be hearing it differently than others, but the vowel seems further back and very tightly rounded. It did seem odd that in one sentence he seemed to use /A:/ for the word LONG, but his short O vowel in POT, GODS, NOT, and DROPS seem to be somewhere between the standard RP pronunciation and the Canadian Shifted or California shifted pronunciation. As Lazar mentioned, he seems to have the LOT-THOUGHT merger, but due to the LOT-CLOTH split, many unmerged speakers pronounce the word LONG with the THOUGHT vowel.
Try to copy my accent
You definitely have really weird short O's. If it weren't for those, you would sound like you could be from anywhere, but to me, those mark you as northern -- if, in fact, you aren't Canadian, which really would have been my first guess.
<< You definitely have really weird short O's. >>
I'm not being picky - well OK, I AM being picky, but that's my nature. The way you have pluralized the 'O', using an apostrophe, rather gets up my nose. Surely this form is incorrect? I mean, apostrophes are for abbreviation or possession - not pluralization.
Mum's and Dad's this way please. NO!!! Mums and Dads!
People do it after numbers. "100's of people were there" - just take out the apostrophe! Or write hundreds!
With this 'O', surely, if not wanting to say 'Os', which could be misunderstood, surely you could enclose the 'O' in quote marks, and leave the 's' for pluralization outside? Like this:
'O's
I'm not being picky - well OK, I AM being picky, but that's my nature. The way you have pluralized the 'O', using an apostrophe, rather gets up my nose. Surely this form is incorrect? I mean, apostrophes are for abbreviation or possession - not pluralization.
Mum's and Dad's this way please. NO!!! Mums and Dads!
People do it after numbers. "100's of people were there" - just take out the apostrophe! Or write hundreds!
With this 'O', surely, if not wanting to say 'Os', which could be misunderstood, surely you could enclose the 'O' in quote marks, and leave the 's' for pluralization outside? Like this:
'O's
Caspian, where do you think the speaker's from? East of the Dakotas, West, or North?
<<
I'm not being picky - well OK, I AM being picky, but that's my nature. The way you have pluralized the 'O', using an apostrophe, rather gets up my nose. Surely this form is incorrect? I mean, apostrophes are for abbreviation or possession - not pluralization. >>
Caspian,
While I'm not sure of the specifics, I've seen the apostrophe thing discussed to death all over the web and it has been established that it is acceptable to use the apostrophe in the fashion (O's) that it was used in the post you objected to (not the mums and dads bit though, that is definitely incorrect!)
I'm not being picky - well OK, I AM being picky, but that's my nature. The way you have pluralized the 'O', using an apostrophe, rather gets up my nose. Surely this form is incorrect? I mean, apostrophes are for abbreviation or possession - not pluralization. >>
Caspian,
While I'm not sure of the specifics, I've seen the apostrophe thing discussed to death all over the web and it has been established that it is acceptable to use the apostrophe in the fashion (O's) that it was used in the post you objected to (not the mums and dads bit though, that is definitely incorrect!)
This speaker does not meet the criteria for either the Canadian or California vowel shift. Even though the cot/caught vowel is shifted, there is no movement of either /E/ or /{/.
The speaker doesn't do that weird Ohio thing where they insert a Y in front of other vowels. The only bizarreness I picked up on was the strange short O, which almost sounded like it wanted to morph into an R. It's like a cot-caught unmerged O, but not quite, and the rest of the accent doesn't quite fit.
I only pluralize non-words like that, Caspian. "Os" looks weird to me, especially because there IS a word "os" (medical term for bone).
I only pluralize non-words like that, Caspian. "Os" looks weird to me, especially because there IS a word "os" (medical term for bone).
Hmm. I didn't notice anything strange about the short o's or Os or whatever u want to call them.
Uriel: "The speaker doesn't do that weird Ohio thing where they insert a Y in front of other vowels."
You've noticed that too? Once when I mentioned this on this board, several people seemed to think I was nuts, but to a Southerner/Westerner, the added "y" sticks out like a sore thumb. It seems to have made its primary home in the Great Lakes area, though I have noticed it, oddly enough, as a feature in native Reno-ites
You've noticed that too? Once when I mentioned this on this board, several people seemed to think I was nuts, but to a Southerner/Westerner, the added "y" sticks out like a sore thumb. It seems to have made its primary home in the Great Lakes area, though I have noticed it, oddly enough, as a feature in native Reno-ites
Uriel and Jasper, are you talking about the first stage of the Northern Cities Vowel Shift? If so, only people from northern Ohio (from Toledo to Cleveland) have this feature. People from central Ohio usually have a North Midland accent and people from southern Ohio usually have a South Midland accent or some sort of a cross between the North Midland accent and the South Midland accent. The speaker from this post would obviously sound out of place in Cleveland, but may go unnoticed in Columbus, despite the fact that most North Midland speakers use /A/ for their LOT vowel.
That is interesting about Reno, but I suppose mass migration throughout the years gives way to a wide variety of dialects in the West. It seems to me that the West as a whole allows room for a very inconsistent range of different influences.
That is interesting about Reno, but I suppose mass migration throughout the years gives way to a wide variety of dialects in the West. It seems to me that the West as a whole allows room for a very inconsistent range of different influences.
>> As Lazar mentioned, he seems to have the LOT-THOUGHT merger, but due to the LOT-CLOTH split, many unmerged speakers pronounce the word LONG with the THOUGHT vowel. <<
Hmm. I don't quite understand what you mean by the LOT-CLOTH split. According to Wikipedia on the lot-cloth split: "Obviously, in accents of American English that are subject to the cot-caught merger, there is no difference between words that did and those that did not undergo the change."
>> The speaker from this post would obviously sound out of place in Cleveland <<
Really? Would the average Clevelander notice a strong accent?
Hmm. I don't quite understand what you mean by the LOT-CLOTH split. According to Wikipedia on the lot-cloth split: "Obviously, in accents of American English that are subject to the cot-caught merger, there is no difference between words that did and those that did not undergo the change."
>> The speaker from this post would obviously sound out of place in Cleveland <<
Really? Would the average Clevelander notice a strong accent?
Yeah, I think the extra Y is what they are talking about when they say northern cities vowel shift. I've only heard it once or twice in real life since I don't live in the Midwest, but both times it was from Ohioans -- transplanted Ohioans, I might add, since one was living in Georgia and I overheard the others in line at the Frankfurt airport and snuck a peek at their luggage tags to confirm. I guess that's why I immidiately associate it with Ohio, although not all Ohioans may have it.
There's a good amount of accent variation in the western US, since you'll hear vestiges of semi-Southern midlands on the parts that border Oklahoma and northern Texas, heavy hispanic accents (sometimes on people who don't even speak any Spanish, so it's not a "foreign" accent per se, just a regional/cultural one), and lots of people who are just pretty "accentless" by American standards.
There's a good amount of accent variation in the western US, since you'll hear vestiges of semi-Southern midlands on the parts that border Oklahoma and northern Texas, heavy hispanic accents (sometimes on people who don't even speak any Spanish, so it's not a "foreign" accent per se, just a regional/cultural one), and lots of people who are just pretty "accentless" by American standards.