How do Americans manage to pronounce the word "murderer

Laurent   Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:45 pm GMT
I can't think of any other word so hard to say in US English : three "R", the T-voicing for the "d". It sounds very awkward when I say it. Just compare with the British pronunciation, very smooth as the 1st and 3rd "R" are mute, plus obviously no T-voicing
eeuuian   Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:49 am GMT
<<I can't think of any other word so hard to say in US English >>

Some folks have complained about "sixths" in the past. "Murderer" doesn't seem hard at all, to me.
Jago   Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:06 am GMT
Listen to this video (Death in Vegas - Aisha).
At about 22 seconds in you'll hear Iggy Pop say 'murderer'.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=cOsonaQMy-E
LL   Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:38 am GMT
I don't find it hard to say-not when I am sober, anyway. I rarely drink, so it's not a problem.

I do find some words difficult to say in other languages. Take the word apart and say it slowly, then speed it up until you get it right.

Or use the British pronunciation.
Kelly Key   Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:25 am GMT
m@r-d@r-@r
Caspian   Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:20 pm GMT
An American man is lying on the floor, a knife embedded deep in his chest, coughing and spluttering and inches from death. A policeman squats beside him, encouraging him to elaborate.
"What happened? Did you do this to yourself?"
"No!" spluttered the man, his face turning scarlet. "It was Jamie. He's the - the murd -mrde - murde -" and then, he gave his last spluttering cough and allowed himself to be plunged into the eternal darkness of death.
"What did he say?" queried one policeman, puzzledly looking at his colleague, who was busily jotting down the time of death.
"Dunno," replied his colleague. "Obviously suicide though."

So - if the man had been British, he would have been able to accuse the villain of murder.

Lol.
Jef   Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:25 am GMT
Could somebody explain to me what "t-voicing" is? In this word, there is no real difference between the British and American pronunciations of D.
Uriel   Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:19 am GMT
It's just merr-derr-err. Not hard to say at all.
An American   Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:53 pm GMT
I think it's Laurent who has the pronunciation problem
Lo   Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:23 pm GMT
I use a flapped D so it's m@'-4@'-@'
Jim   Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:50 pm GMT
It's not hard for me to pronounce it rhotic style ... no more than usual (i.e. I have to think to go rhotic).
Anothe Guest   Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:39 am GMT
So if someone were to say "he's a mutterer", a British person would think that he's committed homicide?
Flapper slapper   Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:20 am GMT
>>So if someone were to say "he's a mutterer", a British person would think that he's committed homicide? <<

If you're trying to compare "mutterer" with "murderer", there are contrasting vowel lengths. i.e. the first syllable of "mutt" contains a shorter vowel than that in "mur".

Also, the two vowels are pronounced differently so there can be no confusion whether or not the "tt" in "mutterer" is flapped.
Johnny   Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:36 am GMT
<< ...[in British dialects]... If you're trying to compare "mutterer" with "murderer", there are contrasting vowel lengths. i.e. the first syllable of "mutt" contains a shorter vowel than that in "mur".
Also, the two vowels are pronounced differently so there can be no confusion whether or not the "tt" in "mutterer" is flapped.>>

True, but I'd also add that in British dialects t's are rarely tapped. I've sometimes heard some t's tapped at the end of words, between a word and the following one, but never in the middle of a word (occasionally tapped in "might end" or "but in", but not in "matter" or "butter"). Am I right?

Also, I think all the transcriptions provided here might not help Laurent pronounce "murderer". You can't really say MUR-der-er = /mɚdɚɚ/, as you would have two "vowels" one after the other with nothing in between. That's the part he's having trouble with, I think. I would give him a transcription like MUR-der-rer = /mɚdɚɹɚ/, where /ɹ/ is the last syllable onset. Would that be better?
Lazar   Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:43 pm GMT
@Johnny: I agree; I think that [...ɚɹɚ] would be a more accurate transcription of the real AmEng pronunciation than [ɚɚ]. In my own speech, at least, I detect a syllable-onset [ɹ] in the middle.