Are American true native speakers of English?

I don't think it's so much a complete lack of knowledge of the make-up of the United Kingdom. If you asked most American whether Scotland and Ireland were separate countries, they'd know they answer. I think the misunderstanding has more to do with our similarities than differences. Sounds crazy, I know, but here goes with an explanation.

Our original thirteen states were separate countries, in theory. They had their own laws, their own currencies, their own judicial systems, etc. The Articles of Confederation respected that and merely set out guidlines for interstate relations. Sort of like the modern United Kingdom.

However, the states were in such a bad way economically after the Revolution, it didn't take long for people to figure out they were going to have to work together and form a central government of some sort. The idea of a congress was widely accepted. After all, the Continental Congress had certainly worked during the war. However, the people were by and larged manhandled into the idea of a president (far too much like a king for many people at the time) and the office held little power.

Anyway, up until the civil war, the idea of the states being separate entities was well-cherished. The United States was alway referred to as a plural. The Confederacy held the renewal of state's rights as a part of their overall goal. They lost, states gave up their supremacy to the federal government, and the United States began referring to itself in the singular form.

Point being that we kind of assume you guys have the same sort of deal working between your nations, or at least don't mind being put in the same group.

I think you'll find if you read US expat forums that the issue with asking for water goes both ways. I know that's been my personal experience.

***London (and many other centres in England) has very flouring Scottish and Welsh Societies***

In the very unlikely event of you not realising....it should of course have read "flourishing". Pastry or bread making is just not on the cards.

Rene - thanks for all that. You mentioned Scotland and Ireland*...what about poor wee Wales? Don't tell me most Americans don't know about the ancient Principality? The Land of Song and Laver Bread** and Love Spoons! Of where exactly do they think Charlie boy is Prince?

We are indeed four separate entities all combined as one under the Crown, all pretending to like each other except on the Rugby pitch. *You did mean Northern Ireland, of course.....The Republic of Ireland proper is actually a foreign country but, like us, within the European Union and part of the Eurozone, unlike us as at going to press....an English speaking country, of course...with Irish Gaelic very much a minority Language mainly spoken out on the fringes.

**Laver bread - this is a uniquely Welsh dish....made out of seaweed! Laver (prounced exactly the same as volcanic "lava"...'lah-vah') is a reddish kind of edible seaweed which only grows along the coast of Wales for some reason. After being thoroughly washed and rinsed in fresh water, to get rid of every single particle of sand and any other detritus, it is gently boiled for about six hours, after which it is dried and then finely chopped up, then mixed with well seasoned oatmeal, roled into sort of flat oatcakes and then fried. It seems to be something which only the Welsh could relish.

"A glass of water, please!"....right, American expats over here - well, let's say in London or the South of England, for argument's sake and to save a whole lot of bother bearing in mind the plethora of UK regional accents -they could playfully say something like: "A glahhsss uv waw-t-uh, please!" Full comprendo all round. That would work all over the UK.

Conversely.....our expats "over there": "A glehhhsss o'waddah!" (with the "please" bit being optional!) Is that right or am I being horribly stereotypical? ;-)

Seeing so many of the British expats over in the US experiencing linguistic difficulties when asking for even the most basic of items, and not just glasses of water, is quite an eye opener. One Brit nearly had a stroke trying to make this poor girl understand what he meant when he enquired about the range of fruit juices they had on offer. It just has to be the accent thing and general American unfamiliarity with many non-American accents - especially in areas well away from the main tourist spots on both coasts....that huge landmass in between!

Damian- most Americans probably would know of Wales, though they probably couldn't find it on a map. No, I'm joking. And the North/South Ireland thing confuses us to no end, so we pretend to know nothing of it.

What seemed to cause the most problems, as mentioned on the expats forum, was that they can't quite grasp the "be polite at all costs and in any situation" policy in America. They were talking about Americans being too stupid to tell when they're lying. One classic example was when asked if he spoke English as a first or second language a man replied, "my first language is Rosetta Stone English". Anyone is going to know that was a sarcastic, rude comment, but they're just going to play along like they believe it. So, the joke ends up being on them, and there's probably a good laugh as soon as they walk away.

Note to all British Expats in America- we pretend to be dumb so as not to have to respond to insults. It's a knee-jerk reaction.

<<Compared with the UK, where 87% of people over 18 hold a passport, only a minority of Americans are in the same position (without checking it may even be as low as an incredible 255, perhaps even less and quite honestly that doesn't bother them too much, ...>>

I don't have a current US passport (I did once, though), and it doesn't bother me at all. I have no plans to leave the US ever again. In fact it's been almost two decades since I've been outside of NY and the surrounding states.

Lots of people don't travel much -- think of all the CO2 it saves :)

>>
I don't have a current US passport (I did once, though), and it doesn't bother me at all. I have no plans to leave the US ever again. In fact it's been almost two decades since I've been outside of NY and the surrounding states. <<

I have a friend who went to Germany for a three day trip. After he came back, he said it was the most frightening experience he had ever had in his life. He vowed never venture outside the US and Canada again. So far he hasn't.

>>What seemed to cause the most problems, as mentioned on the expats forum, was that they can't quite grasp the "be polite at all costs and in any situation" policy in America. They were talking about Americans being too stupid to tell when they're lying. One classic example was when asked if he spoke English as a first or second language a man replied, "my first language is Rosetta Stone English". Anyone is going to know that was a sarcastic, rude comment, but they're just going to play along like they believe it. So, the joke ends up being on them, and there's probably a good laugh as soon as they walk away.<<

The above is definitely true, at least here in Wisconsin. Even when other people, especially if they are strangers, are being impolite, improper, dishonest, obnoxious, or like, they are very often not called on it unless something such as money is involved or if the individuals in question are driving*. We, in person, are very commonly polite or at least civil with people whom we do not like, whose actions we do not like, or worse for that matter. That does not mean that the other people involved are not aware of such - they are very likely to talk about it behind one's back once they are outside listening range, actually.

* we, on the other hand, tend to have little tolerance for other individuals' obnoxious driving here, and are not afraid to express such either; of course, then, the same goes conversely with the more obnoxious drivers here

>> Many who went to live in America never realised what a huge cultural shock it would be for them there <<

Judging by your posts, I must conclude that you've never actually been here. You cannot rely on what other people say about how it is to live in another country. Nor can you rely on movies either. As an American, the biggest shock that I experienced when I visited London was how it felt like I hadn't left home. Sure it was a different city, and there were many interesting sites to explore. But it felt no more foreign than visiting Boston, for instance. Where they also have a slightly different accent. I was amazed at how similar it was. After watching old early 1900s videos, I was expecting something quite a bit different and much more exotic. The biggest difference was the fact that the bus schedules use the 24-hour clock, rather than the 12-hour clock that we use in America. If you ever do visit America, you will be more blown away by the similarities than the differences.

Okay, well, it is not really a matter of being "dumb" here, but rather a matter of being at least civil if not polite in person at all costs if nothing truly important (e.g. money) is involved. It is more a way of making things work smoothly in interactions with people one does not know than anything else - it is only worth it to call people on things that actually matter, and otherwise it is easier and less stressful to try to make things function smoothly at with respect to matters of business, so to speak, while outwardly disregarding that which one does not than to openly conflict with anyone one does not like.

Quite honestly, I can't wait to pay my first visit to the United States, then I can make my own mind up about all these issues we've been discussing.

I've heard other Americans comment on the many similarities with "back home" they encounter over here - but for the accents, the driving on the left, the drizzle and grey skies (the sun really, really DOES shine quite a lot here, you know! Sometimes - but not very often - it can hold off raining altogether for weeks on end! Just imagine that! It doies happen!

It's probably the common Language, disregarding the accents - plus similarities in culture - in spite of other cultural variations, according to those Brit expats now living over in the USA - but you must, you really must, acknowledge the fact that Brits generally are very accomplished whingers and whiners, and I reckon the Angel Gabriel has one hell of a problem dealing with all those grumpy new arrivals from earthbound Britain lining up at the Pearly Gates - already complaining about Paradise before they've even been officially admitted to it.

Plus we also have Starbucks, KFC, McDonalds, Waggamama, Sally Jessie Whatsherface, Desperate Housewives, Sons and Brothers.........no wonder you lot feel at home here.

I'm off out now at last - it's been a hard night's day one way or another.

Why should Americans know or care whether Welsh are the same as English or not? People often call all people from the UK English in the same way they call all people from Russia Russians, or all people from Turkey Turkish or all people from Italy Italians or all people from Spain SPanish, when actually those nations are made up of many ethnic groups and the dominant one takes the honour. It's just a convention and no big deal.

>> but for the accents, the driving on the left, the drizzle and grey skies (the sun really, really DOES shine quite a lot here, you know! Sometimes - but not very often - it can hold off raining altogether for weeks on end! Just imagine that! It doies happen! <<

Well, the accent is about as foreign sounding as a Boston or New York accent. As for the drizzle and grey skies, some places here are like that as well: e.g. Seattle, Vancouver, Portland, and Ketchikan come to mind. In fact I believe that all of those cities are even greyer and rainier, particularly Ketchikan. The driving on the left is probably the hardest to get used to.

>> Why should Americans know or care whether Welsh are the same as English or not? People often call all people from the UK English in the same way they call all people from Russia Russians, or all people from Turkey Turkish or all people from Italy Italians or all people from Spain SPanish <<

No, they should call them all *British* not English. I think the confusion is because people assume that English=British.

<,No, they should call them all *British* not English. I think the confusion is because people assume that English=British. >>

Except England is the dominant nation, so they deserve to have the country named after them. The others shouldn't have let themselves be subjugated.

>> Except England is the dominant nation, so they deserve to have the country named after them. The others shouldn't have let themselves be subjugated. <<

You're just being silly now. But what can one expect? It is the internet--where people can voice whatever ridiculous opinion that they pretend to have, that they would never say in real life. So with that logic, the United States should be called Texas? And all the residents Texans?