Is colloquial usage incorrect?

Hi there, in the languages forum there is a hot debate over Brazilian Portuguese, and many people claim Brazilians forms are ''colloquial'' and ''incorrect'', and the ''correct'' forms are those imported from Portugal.

Should language usage be divided between COLLOQUIAL and CORRECT?
Shouldn't both be correct?


Like in English:


It's me COLLOQUIAL /INCORRECT
It is I CORRECT.


I think both are correct, but It's me is INFORMAL and It is I is FORMAL?
Why is that in 3rd word countries colloquial forms are labeled as incorrect?
Why aren't the ''correct'' forms labeled as FORMAL, since they are similar to WHOM, SHALL, WHILST, THEE in English?


Is it a linguistic ignorance to divide the language into COLLOQUIAL (Who did you see?) and CORRECT (Whom did you see?). Should both be correct, with only the style/register being different?

Many Brazilian courses teach ''Chamo-me, chego a casa'' but people saying this in Brazil would raise strange looks (as ''Whom'' or ''It is we'' would in the US). Shouldn't language courses be more refined in their language representation?

Well, it's more a question of which form is most appropriate in the social situation you find yourself in. If you are writing a grant proposal, you need to use the formal form. If you are amongst friends, you can use the colloquial. Colloquial and informal expressions aren't always grammatically incorrect -- the "I screwed up" example from the other thread contains no grammatical irregularities at all. Other expressions, like "I ain't got no time for this" do. But they have their place in certain social settings, and express certain feelings or moods more succinctly than formal English. So they serve an important social function, and we all recognize the form. Which has its own rules, just like the formal one. The important part is knowing when to use which form and what it will convey to your listener.

Whom, shall, whilst, and thee are highly variable in English, and aren't really strictly formal or correct. Whom vs. who is often moot in the US, where many people would find either one acceptable as an object. However, you could still argue that whom is the correct and formal form, while who is informal and colloquial. The distinction is diminishing over time, however. Shall is rarely used in the US, and shan't is never used -- will and won't are the usual substitutes. But will isn't less formal or colloquial in any way. Whilst simply doesn't exist in US English; we always say while. While is not informal or colloquial, either. We actually don't consider whilst formal OR correct because here it is completely archaic; you would get a funny look if you used it. But it IS both formal and correct -- and current -- in the UK. Thee is considered archaic in most dialects and only exists today in a few non-standard British dialects. It was once a familiar form of you, but now, because its use has virtually died out, it "feels" very formal -- but we would still not use it, because we no longer maintain a distinction between you and thee.

Ironically, "thee" was originally quite informal; "you" was used in formal situations or addressing superiors. Eventually, "thee" died out, and now it's considered formal. And I noticed you used "amongst", which is to "among": as "whilst" is to "while".

As for the original question, I think that there is a difference betwen formal, informal/colloquial, and incorrect.

Uriel, do you use 'amongst' in the US? I thought it was in the same league with 'whilst' over there.

I almost never hear 'whilst' or 'amongst' here in the midwest US.

You'll hear both amongst and among in the US. I use them both interchangeably and don't have a preference. Same with amid and amidst, or in the middle and in the midst. Those forms aren't dead yet, unlike whilst. Why that one died out and the others persist I don't know. Maybe there are geographical preferences in parts of the country, but I don't know what they are. I grew up all over.

As I recall, there was a movie a few years back called "Amongst Friends" that was set in the East Coast -- the actors all had New York/New Jersey accents. Maybe that's why our midwesterner doesn't hear it much but I'm okay with it -- I spent ten years back east as a kid.

Forcing ''correct'' formal forms all the time will make you sound like a snob.