Simple English

Jimmy   Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:26 am GMT
Does it sound okay if I only use simple English when I speak? No slang and idioms or just a few. Does it sound unnatural to a native speaker when I speak this way?
Robin Michael   Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:01 am GMT
I think that it is much better to keep it simple than to try to be over ambitious.

After all, the goal is communication and comprehension.

Slang and idioms, date very quickly, and are often only said to be witty. In many ways they interfere with simple communication. Also, if you mix up formal and informal, you can easy get it wrong.

In actual fact, I don't think that people take offence when foreingners get it wrong.


To give an example, it is not uncommon for British people to end a sentence - 'son' or 'pal'.

If you say, 'blah, blah, blah, son', it implies that you are older and wiser than the person that you are speaking too.

Similarly, 'blah, blah, blah, pal', it suggests that you are in some way friends with the person that you are speaking too.

Often people feel mildly upset or insulted, but they hide their feelings. But if someone wanted to make a point, they could say; I am not your 'pal', or 'who do you think you are?
Robin Michael   Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:17 am GMT
I was quite friendly with a Polish woman who had taught English in Poland.

She corrected the way that I said 'often'. I have since looked this up, and there are actually two ways that you can pronounce 'often'. You can pronounce all the letters, or you can miss out the 't'.

I pronounce all the letters 'of-ten', rather than 'of-en'.


EXCUSE ME!

As you can imagine, my opinion of her changed completely after this episode. I stared to think of her as being: very rigid in her thinking, authoritarian and insensitive.

English is very complex, and there are many variations. It is one thing to spot variations, it is another to comment on them. But to correct someone else, is the height of bad manners.

That is why; British people will often appear, not to notice, rather strange and foreign sounding 'spoken English'. With written English, you have a Spell Checker and Grammar Checker.

I once copied a passage from the Film ‘My Fair Lady’ (Pygmalion – the Play) into a Post, here. Someone, went through it, correcting the bad English. (UNBELIEVABLE!)

In practice, British people use their common sense when using ‘Grammar Checkers’. They often correct a ‘Passive Voice’, which at the end of the day is – a style of writing .
Robin Michael   Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:24 am GMT
I often find, that I have to listen quite carefully to someone, to their 'tone', intonation, word choice, etc before I can readily understand what they are saying.

Going through what I have just written, I have changed the word order of the sentences to make them easier to read. As you can imagine, in spoken English, the words just tumble out.

Also, depending on who I am talking to, I will extend the sentence or contract it.

"The Gritters were out to night"

Might seem like a strange if not meaningless comment.

So, it might be better to say:

"The Gritting Lorries were out to night."

or if I think that you really might not get it, I could use some redundancy:

"The Gritting Lorries were out gritting the roads, tonight." "I think that it is going to be very cold tomorrow morning." "or, at least, that is what is forecast."
Robin Michael   Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:46 am GMT
Foreigner

Foreigners

Sorry! I mispelt that word, and I thought that I had spell checked my comments.

1. One who is from a foreign country or place.
2. One who is from outside a particular group or community; an outsider.


Dictionary: for·eign·er (fôr'ə-nər, fŏr'-) pronunciation

Alien (law), a person who is not a native or naturalized citizen of the land where they reside

I went to a Folk Club and they were singing songs about 'Wales', however one woman sang a song about 'Whales'. So it is very easy to make mistakes.
Robert in London   Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:38 pm GMT
I always thought that simple English was just American English minus the slang.
Poliglob   Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:19 pm GMT
American English minus the slang is called silence.

(Just kidding -- I speak American English myself.)
Poliglob   Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:30 pm GMT
"Does it sound okay if I only use simple English when I speak? No slang and idioms or just a few. Does it sound unnatural to a native speaker when I speak this way? "

No, it sounds fine. I recommend that you speak that way (at least until you're advanced enough that you don't need to ask the question). You can still adapt your speech in particular conversations to the words and expressions that others are using.
Robin Michael   Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:57 pm GMT
Simple English Wikipedia

There is a form of Wikipedia that is written in Simple English and it is designed to be used by people for whom English is not their native language. There are instructions in writing 'Simple English' in terms of suitable grammar and vocabulary.


Wikipedia:How to write Simple English articles

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_write_Simple_English_articles
Robin Michael   Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:14 pm GMT
This is an example of Damian's English.

I've apologised several times before in this Forum for constantly going off on a tangent - way off topic and totally irrelevant. I admit that, and often wonder why I haven't been hauled over the coals about that before now and then had all my verbose ramblings chucked into the Antimoon wheelie bin.

We will now subject it to the "simple_basic_helper" computer program.

The words considered difficult for which help is given are:

I've APOLOGISED several times before in this FORUM for CONSTANTLY going off on a tangent - way off TOPIC and TOTALLY irrelevant. I admit that, and wonder why I haven't been HAULED over the coals about that before now and then had all my VERBOSE RAMBLINGS CHUCKED into the ANTIMOON WHEELIE BIN.
Robin Michael   Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:21 pm GMT
As well as words in Damian's English which might be considered difficult, there are also expressions.

Has anyone seen the: 'Antimoon Wheelie Bin'?

"Hauled over the coals"

I can remember being in L.A (Los Angeles) and watching a small Hispanic boy being shown a lump of coal, at a Fire Brigade Station. It was something that he had never seen before.

"Going off on a tangent"

"way off topic"

I think I am beginning to be rather unkind to Damian?

Bye for now
Robin Michael   Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:25 pm GMT
This is the Web Site that I got the tool for analysing the difficulty of English Words.

http://www.online-utility.org/english/simple_basic_helper.jsp

You can use a selection of different vocabulary lists of approved and non-approved words.
Robin Michael   Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:41 pm GMT
This is the same exercise on Damian's passage, but using Ogden's Basic English 850 words and some forms, to determine what is difficult or easy.

Once again, the difficult words are in CAPITALS. But first of all Damian's passage.

I've apologised several times before in this Forum for constantly going off on a tangent - way off topic and totally irrelevant. I admit that, and often wonder why I haven't been hauled over the coals about that before now and then had all my verbose ramblings chucked into the Antimoon wheelie bin.

I'VE APOLOGISED SEVERAL times before in this FORUM for CONSTANTLY going off on a TANGENT - way off TOPIC and TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. I ADMIT that, and OFTEN WONDER why I HAVEN'T BEEN HAULED over the coals about that before now and then HAD all MY VERBOSE RAMBLINGS CHUCKED INTO the ANTIMOON WHEELIE BIN.

I am surprised that words like: 'had' 'my' 'into' and 'bin' are considered DIFFICULT!