''sense'' and ''cents''

I think ''I'll'' would actually be ''Ie'l'' from Truespel. ''I'll'' did not come out right on the converter.

One way or another though, I'm not particular inclined to use Truespel, as it is, in my opinion, rather badly designed, both technically and aesthetically.

<<The problem with Truespel here is that it is not being purely phonemic in nature, in that it is including a purely epenthic consonant which does not actually correspond to any phoneme.>>

What's the purely epenthic consonant that it's including?

For "sense", [t] in /ns/ -> [nts] (in at least my dialect).

Here is something off the internet that considers cents, scents and sense to be a trio of homonyms:

http://www.fun-with-words.com/nym_homonyms.html

Whether or not there is an inaudible /t/ sound in between the /n/ and the /s/ may be one of these dancing on the head of a pin-type questions that nobody can answer with exact certainty. However for all practical purposes, I think its possible to say that cents, scents and sense all sound the same as the "fun-with-words" article implies.

Brennus, um no, but just because something on the net says something does not make it so. And which dialects of English are you speaking of here, anyways, as while "cents" and "scents" are homophones here, they are not homophones with "sense". Like I consider what you to be credible anyways, though.

That should be "Like I consider what you say to be credible anyways, though".

<<One way or another though, I'm not particular inclined to use Truespel, as it is, in my opinion, rather badly designed, both technically and aesthetically.>>

I agree. It truly is.

Here's another sample from Truespel that deals with the same kind of words:

I just went to the store and bought a new computer, and now I'm going to go dance where the ants are, and sing ''we wish you a marry Christmas''. I better hurry up, because I'm already kind of late for the dancing. I have a fancy new car with a good rearview mirror. I just carried a pet hamster in the room and dream about the island I stayed at.

Becomes:

''Ie just went tue thu stor and baut u nue kumpyyueter, and nou Ie'm goeweeng tue goe dants wair thu ants aar, and seeng''we wish yue u mairee Christmas''. Ie beter heree up, beekkuz Ie'm aulrredee kiend uv laet fer thu dantseeng. Ie hav u fantsee nue kaar withh u good rearview meerer. Ie just kaireed u pet hamster in thu ruem and dremt ubbout thu ielind Ie staed at.''

I can see by this sample, that truespel even writes ''fancy'' with that ''t''.

Travis,

If you want to continue going through a "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" routine with this one , be my guest, but I think that there are certainly more important questions in linguistics and that it's time to move on. Take care!

--- Brennus

>>Travis,

If you want to continue going through a "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" routine with this one , be my guest, but I think that there are certainly more important questions in linguistics and that it's time to move on. Take care! <<

You sound awfully like Mxsmanic right now, you do know?

What are angels and why are they dancing on one end of a pin?

Brennus,
The point is "cents" and "sense" aren't homophones for everyone.

<<You sound awfully like Mxsmanic right now, you do know?>>

Funny--and "Albert" sounds a lot like Space Flight/Dan/etc.

I don't buy it for a second. Stop it, Albert/Space Flight/Dan/whatever else.

I, for one, pronounce "sense" and "cents", "mince" and "mints" differently. One has a /t/, one doesn't. If you want [mInts], go to a lolly shop, if you want [mIns], go to a butcher. It took me a while to cotton on to what was happening in the "more dollars than cents" pun. One avoids an epenthetic [t] simply by stopping the nasalisation at the same time you stop the stop and start the fricative, rather than before. In fact, I think I would be more likely to say "cents" as [sens] than vice versa. (There's also various other phonetic differences to the vowel, the /n/ and the /s/ that help contribute to maintaining the distinction.)

Felix,

Can you make a recording of you saying ''sense'' and ''cents''. I myself don't see how someone can actually avoid that [t] sound in ''sense''.

<<Can you make a recording of you saying ''sense'' and ''cents''. I myself don't see how someone can actually avoid that [t] sound in ''sense''.>>

Yeah I feel the same way... this'll be interesting.

You can upload sound files to geocities web hosting: http://geocities.yahoo.com/