Gerund's question

Questioner   Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:26 pm GMT
"It was found that fifty percent of the students believed that there had been an increase in profiling of blacks in the institute. "

Does this made up sentence grammatically line up?
MrPedantic   Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:23 pm GMT
It does; but I would call "profiling" a verbal noun, rather than a gerund.

(The difference lies in the use of "of", to connect it to its object: a gerund would take a direct object.)

MrP
Lazar   Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:29 am GMT
@Questioner: Yes, it does.

@MrPedantic: A gerund *is* a verbal noun. If it wasn't a verbal noun, then it would be a participle, not a gerund. There is not, and has never been, a rule that gerunds have to take "of".
Questioner   Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:47 am GMT
Thanks guys.
The reason why I wasn't sure is because I thought I needed a 'the' before 'profiling.'
MrPedantic   Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:35 am GMT
Hello Lazar,

Here are two kinds of nominal ing-form:

1. Constantly eating chips is good for you.
2. The constant eating of chips is good for you.

Of these, the gerund is the later form; it can be qualified by an adverb, and can take an object (#1).

The gerund arose directly from the verbal noun proper, which takes an object via "of" and can be qualified by an adjective (#2).

Thus:

3. An increase in covert profiling of blacks.
4. ??? An increase in covertly profiling of blacks.

Since "profiling" here can't be qualified by an adverb, it isn't a gerund.

I agree that the terminology is deficient: "gerund" is indeed a subset of "verbal noun" (as is the ing-form in "mixed blessings").

All the best,

MrP
H   Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:20 pm GMT
Lazar,
< A gerund *is* a verbal noun. If it wasn't a verbal noun, then it would be a participle, not a gerund.>
Similarly, we could call a mule an asinine horse.
I think verbal nouns are all nouns derived from verbs e.g.
confuse – confusion, confusing
fail – failure, failing
Most verbal nouns can have articles, gerunds never.
Verbal nouns can have the plural, gerunds can’t.

The sittings of the parliament. – a noun
Sitting in the sun is his favourite pastime. – a gerund

The rest has been said by MrP.
Lazar   Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:23 pm GMT
I've posted the question on the Wikipedia Reference Desk, because I'm really not familiar with the distinction that MrPedantic has suggested.
Robin Michael   Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:51 am GMT
Could anyone answer the more fundamental question of 'why learn grammar'?

I am not being funny



I know that grammar is an important part of linguistics - the analysis of language. But I think that this discussion about Gerunds proves that for most native speakers, these grammatical distinctions are not very important.

I nearly provided the answer with my capitalisation, which I have corrected.