Use of /aː/ as opposed to /æ/ in Australia

Trimac20   Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:55 pm GMT
I found this chart on the wiki entry on Australian English phonology to be interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_English_phonology

scroll down to see it

I'm just wondering which way you say it, and what your observations are. I say the following:

graph usually /aː/ so 'grahf' instead of 'graff'
chance chaence instead of chahnce
demand demahnd instead of demaend
dance daence instead of duhnce
castle cahstle instead of casstle
grasp grahsp
to contrast contrahst

I've been to all those cities, but haven't spent enough time to really notice the differences, although I do notice on TV etc Victorians do tend to use the /aː/...the 'casstle' was interesting: I didn't know any Aussies pronounced it that way until I heard a few people: all from Victoria and Queensland, mind you, say it. Needless to say, the overwhelming majority of native Australians here in Perth say 'cahstle' so I would imagine if the survey had included Perth the figure would be about 86% on par with Adelaide. Perth people tend to between SA's preference for the 'ah' sound and Victoria's 'ae' depending largely on class. I don't have an 'all or nothing' rule, and actually tend to switch on occasion, but the above is what I predominantly use.
Maravilha   Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:44 pm GMT
Perth people have [@] in Derby and not [a], compare with

US [d@rbi]
UK [dabi]

I guess, it's to avoid the misunderstandings (Derby and dubby both [dabi])
Bob   Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:28 pm GMT
When an AFL game is played in WA and shown on television, the commentators are usually from that area. Along with their bias towards their team, they pronounce Derby with the /ɜː/ vowel. But it has kind of caught on in other circles as some other travelled commentators will adopt that pronunciation too.

I have /daːbiː/ for "Derby" and /dabiː/ for "dubby", though that last vowel isn't exactly /iː/ or /ɪ/; it isn't perfectly long or short.
Trimac20   Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:45 am GMT
The only context in which most West Australians would even say 'Derby' is the Western Derby...I don't know when it started, but it's one of those cases when we pronounce it phonetically/technically correct but not the way it's supposed to be said.

The same goes for a few other place names:

Albany: Al-bany instead of All-bany (like pretty much everyone else outside WA). 'Al-bany' is more phonetically correct.

Rockingham: Rockingham instead of Rocking'am or Rocking'em as is the English way.

Mandurah: 'Mandra' instead of 'Mandura' (this is more the d-r sound becomes so merged the 'u' is almost or completely squeezed out).
Bob   Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:44 am GMT
That's not true. The historical pronunciation was in fact "durby"; the Britons would have brought this older pronunciation with them to WA. So it's "darby" that is the innovation.

And if you go back far enough in time, it was probably "dairby" originally with the R pronounced. With this vowel sound is how many Scots pronounce it even today.

As for those other names of places, how they're "supposed" to be said is entirely subjective.
Kess   Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:05 pm GMT
Is Australian /a/ in ''lust'' front (as in Canadian ''last'') or back (as in Californian ''lost''?)
Lazar   Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:36 pm GMT
@Kess: I think it's a central [a] or [6], similar to what's found in London and Estuary English.
Jim   Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:56 am GMT
For me (from Sydney) it's

/aː/

graph
demand
castle
grasp
to contrast

/æː/

chance
dance