BrE or AmE in your country??

Hongkonger in Edinburgh   Tue May 12, 2009 6:44 pm GMT
Please excuse the grammatical errors in my previous post. They're obviously typos but since this is a forum for learning English, I'll correct them here:

"Let's assume that some lunatic European dictator decided to standardise the 'level' or 'floor' as *A* unit of measurement..."

"I have a very bad habit of making things more technical *AND* complicated than they should be..."
Hongkonger in Edinburgh   Tue May 12, 2009 6:57 pm GMT
Being the geek that I am, here's a diagram to illustrate how either floor numbering system would make sense.

The European System:

+2 ----------------
+1 ---------------
0 --------------- (ground level)
-1 ---------------
-2 ---------------

The American/East Asian System:
------------------
+2
------------------
+1
------------------ (ground level)
-1
------------------
-2
------------------

Hence, it can be said that the European system is based on the distance of the literal floor (what you walk on) from the surface of the Earth whilst the American/East Asian system refers to the space between floors (i.e. the figurative floor).
Travis   Tue May 12, 2009 7:30 pm GMT
Note though that there are a good amount of buildings here in the US with a distinct "ground" floor separate from their "1st" floor, and yet distinct from any basements below i; that is, they actually follow the supposedly-European system even though they do not explicitly refer to a "0th" floor.
Hongkonger in Edinburgh   Tue May 12, 2009 10:19 pm GMT
Well, "ground floor" is the usual expression in the UK too. "Floor 0" is only ever encountered on lift buttons and in my abstruse ramblings.

Floor numbers in Hong Kong's shopping centres are enough to drive anyone off the deep end. LG1, LG2, G, UG1, UG2, M, 1, 2 and so forth (that's lower ground 1, lower ground 2, ground, upper ground 1, upper ground 2, mezzanine, 1st floor, 2nd floor).
eeuuian   Tue May 12, 2009 11:59 pm GMT
<<The American/East Asian System:
------------------
+2
------------------
+1
------------------ (ground level)
-1
------------------
-2
------------------
>>

I don't think you see many "-1", "-2", labels on elevator buttons around here.
Hongkonger in Edinburgh   Wed May 13, 2009 12:04 am GMT
<<I don't think you see many "-1", "-2", labels on elevator buttons around here.>>

Nor do you see plus signs, but I was trying to get my point across in a way that makes mathematical sense =p
Jasper   Wed May 13, 2009 8:00 am GMT
hongkonger, the trouble with this line of reasoning is that it ignores a basic problem: what do Europeans call a "one-story" house? A "zero-story house"?
Pub Lunch   Wed May 13, 2009 8:13 am GMT
HongKonger - mate, you explained the British system of labelling floor's in a building pretty much exactly how I was going to do it, albeit in a more detailed way!! Hopefully that helps Jasper!! Again, the American system does seem more logical, and I often hear many English people refer to the "2nd floor" as opposed to the first. But as explained, it can be seen that the British system does make sense. I am not saying that our system is better though, the American system is as reasonable as ours of course.

Regarding the public school question HongKonger, you pretty much answered it. Regardless of religious (or ethnic??) background, class or geographical location a public school is open to EVERYONE. The one stipulating factor being of course - can you afford to pay the requested fees?? But this cannot be classed in any way as, I suppose, a discriminatory factor. So quite simply - public schools are open to the entire public.

Comprehensives are open to only those who fall within a given catchment area and so are only really open to a given segment of the public. Religious schools are only open to or favour pupils who belong to that schools particular religious institution. So again, they are limiting the access of the public.

Again, or for me at least, it makes sense but as with our flooring system it requires a bit more thought. Private schools is winning the day though and I only ever hear someone refer to public schools occasionally on the telly or perhaps in the papers - but rarely I must say.

Finally, the spelling of 'foetus' as 'fetus' is the official British use amongst the medical community because (apparently) there was never an 'o' before the 'e' in the Latin original. So they do not recognise 'foetus'. Apart from that, the official spelling in Britain is still 'foetus'. But you are bang on mate when you say this will changed soon enough - it certainly will. In-fact, one of my lecturers actally had the 'oe' version on one of his slides recently and one of my fellow students remarked that "there was a spelling mistake"!!! Oh well!!

I will apologise for any spelling & grammatical mistakes in advance - my written is English is pretty bad. Plus, I don't have it in me to read over all that again. I have clearly had my Weetabix this morning.
  Wed May 13, 2009 8:23 am GMT
"what do Europeans call a "one-story" house?"

We call it ground floor house.
Pub Lunch   Wed May 13, 2009 8:42 am GMT
**my written is English**

Good grief.
Hongkonger in Edinburgh   Wed May 13, 2009 9:57 am GMT
Jasper: <<hongkonger, the trouble with this line of reasoning is that it ignores a basic problem: what do Europeans call a "one-story" house? A "zero-story house"?>>

As Pub Lunch and I have said, we do not claim that our floor-numbering system is superior. We accept that both systems are equally valid and logical. So should you, in my humble opinion =p

Anyhow, the problem you raised can be solved by separating the concept of a storey (or story in American spelling) from a floor. Sounds illogical, right? Or not... allow me to refer back to the literal and figurative meanings of the word "floor": the literal meaning as a surface to walk on, and a figurative meaning as the space contained within a level of a building. Storey only ever refers to the latter.

Hence, a one-storey building is a one-storey building, because there's one layer of living space above the ground. I've never heard anyone say "ground floor house"; very, very few refer to the ground floor as the "ground storey". In these parts, it's also quite rare to say "first storey, second storey, etc.", for in popular usage, "floor" is mostly an ordinal expression (denoting position) whilst "storey" is predominantly a cardinal one (denoting quantity). I'm not saying you won't find exceptions though...
-------

Hullo, Pub Lunch! So I wasn't that far off on the "public school" concept, eh? Well, I'll have to say I agree with you, having myself suffered from school area boundaries (tried to beat the system, had offer rescinded, enrolled instead at a public/private school because my local comprehensive was s****).

And thanks for pointing out the Latin original of "fetus". You know... I would have taken that "my written is English" as an intentional joke if you had not emphasised that it really was a typo. Cheers!
Hongkonger in Edinburgh   Wed May 13, 2009 10:06 am GMT
All in all, the last 1.5 pages of this thread can pretty much be summarised thus:

American logic is typically simple and direct. British logic requires some convoluted thought, but once you've untied all the knots, it's actually quite reasonable.
Pub Lunch   Wed May 13, 2009 2:07 pm GMT
Cheers HongKonger!! You seem to know your onions geezer!!

**And thanks for pointing out the Latin original of "fetus". You know... I would have taken that "my written is English" as an intentional joke if you had not emphasised that it really was a typo. Cheers!**

I'm not that clever mate!!

Jasper - funnily enough, my cousin lives in a house with a ground floor and two upper ones and we do refer to it as "a three storey house". But as HongKonger pointed out, the definitions of 'floor' and 'storey' are some what different. Good job he did as well because that got me worried for a second there - I was just about to admit defeat!!!! Phew!!!!

Now then matey, let's get started on your somewhat askewed (is that a word??) dating system - and I don't mean the Birds and the Bees!!!! Only joking sunshine! I think you lot can blame us for that one anyway!!(I think??).
Damian London E14   Wed May 13, 2009 2:58 pm GMT
Here in the UK you enter a large building directly off the street and you are on the Ground Floor......if you go through into the reception area and head for the lifts (yes...I do mean the elevators) step inside a lift and mistakenly press the wrong button - you find yourself going down and your next and only stop is the basement.

Press the other button and your next stop is back to the Ground Floor again, but one stage more up and you come to the First Floor, and naturally one stage more again is the Second Floor, and so on and so on until you come to the restaurant right at the top almost...the one with the magnificent view of the metropolis of London.....currently looking a lot brighter now than it did earlier today when it was dull and dreich and dreary skied....the winds doth shake the darling buds of May......and Summer's lease hath all too short a run....nah, it ain't started proper yet, mate! Here's hoping.....
noneuian   Wed May 13, 2009 3:04 pm GMT
Is there an actual EU standard on floor numbering that enforces the "European system"?