|
|
T.S. Eliot's accent
From what I read from wikipedia, T.S. Eliot was born in St. Louis, Missouri, thus he should have an american accent, but in this recording below where he's reading "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock", he has a slight indian accent. Is that he's real accent or just an affectation? For such a great poet, he had a terrible voice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkolsjnTutc
Indian accent? No, it's a rather old-fashioned RP accent. TS Eliot moved to Britain when he was 25 and became a British subject when he was 39, and he was quite an anglophile, so it makes sense that he would have used RP as he got older. (Having gone to Harvard at the turn of the century, he likely would have acquired a rather British-sounding accent even before he moved there.)
There is a type voice that poets traditionally read their poetry. Unfortunately he seems to have adopted this style. Poetry in Britain is not popular.
I think that this is a good example of why poetry is not popular. Songs on the other hand, are very popular.
<For such a great poet, he had a terrible voice.>
I wouldn't agree; but even if the second clause were true, the statement would be something of a non sequitur. MrP
MrP, sometimes being pedantic is helpful, sometimes it isn't. You introduce the term 'non sequitur' which is the sort of term that pedantic people love. But you don't explain your point of view.
We start with the statement: "For such a great poet, he had a terrible voice." I agree with this statement. The delivery is dead, and lacking all emotion. It is the deadpan delivery style which used to be very popular at poetry readings. Is that he's real accent or just an affectation? It sounds to me like an 'affectation'. He reads poetry in the way that he thinks poets read poetry, in a rather boring lifeless way. No wonder poetry is unpopular! How about have a bit of expression in your voice? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5P5BM23uUU
I think only a classically-trained actor will be able to do justice to a poem like the Waste Land. T.S. Eliot's recitation of it is very idiosyncratic. I rather like Sylvia Plath's reading of her poem Daddy, very emotional, although as I guy I find the rest of her stuff extremely depressing.
Sylvia Plath - "Daddy"
She starts off with that dreadful way of deadpan way of talking - but her voice then gains more emotion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hHjctqSBwM Daddy by: Sylvia Plath You do not do, you do not do Any more, black shoe In which I have lived like a foot For thirty years, poor and white, Barely daring to breathe or Achoo. Daddy, I have had to kill you. You died before I had time-- Marble-heavy, a bag full of God, Ghastly statue with one gray toe Big as a Frisco seal And a head in the freakish Atlantic Where it pours bean green over blue In the waters off beautiful Nauset. I used to pray to recover you. Ach, du. In the German tongue, in the Polish town Scraped flat by the roller Of wars, wars, wars. But the name of the town is common. My Polack friend Says there are a dozen or two. So I never could tell where you Put your foot, your root, I never could talk to you. The tongue stuck in my jaw. It stuck in a barb wire snare. Ich, ich, ich, ich, I could hardly speak. I thought every German was you. And the language obscene An engine, an engine Chuffing me off like a Jew. A Jew to Dachau, Auschwitz, Belsen. I began to talk like a Jew. I think I may well be a Jew. The snows of the Tyrol, the clear beer of Vienna Are not very pure or true. With my gipsy ancestress and my weird luck And my Taroc pack and my Taroc pack I may be a bit of a Jew. I have always been scared of you, With your Luftwaffe, your gobbledygoo. And your neat mustache And your Aryan eye, bright blue. Panzer-man, panzer-man, O You-- Not God but a swastika So black no sky could squeak through. Every woman adores a Fascist, The boot in the face, the brute Brute heart of a brute like you. You stand at the blackboard, daddy, In the picture I have of you, A cleft in your chin instead of your foot But no less a devil for that, no not Any less the black man who Bit my pretty red heart in two. I was ten when they buried you. At twenty I tried to die And get back, back, back to you. I thought even the bones would do. But they pulled me out of the sack, And they stuck me together with glue. And then I knew what to do. I made a model of you, A man in black with a Meinkampf look And a love of the rack and the screw. And I said I do, I do. So daddy, I'm finally through. The black telephone's off at the root, The voices just can't worm through. If I've killed one man, I've killed two-- The vampire who said he was you And drank my blood for a year, Seven years, if you want to know. Daddy, you can lie back now. There's a stake in your fat black heart And the villagers never liked you. They are dancing and stamping on you. They always knew it was you. Daddy, daddy, you bastard, I'm through. From "Ariel", 1966
Pam Ayres - I did some research on this lady and it seems she developed a poetic skill pretty early in her life and eventually it made her famous as her poetry, although basic, always has a comic touch about it and this has made her popular at all kinds of social gatherings and events, including poetry festivals, such as the one in Ledbury, Herefordshire. Her use of the English Language in her poetic skits is quite amusing.
She originally comes from a small village called Stanford-in-the-Vale, in an area of south west Oxfordshire, England, called the Vale of the White Horse, which is so named because of the giant figure of a horse carved, about two thousand years ago, out of the chalk underlying the grass on a hillside of the Berkshire Downs, above the wee village of Uffington, which in turn was the home village of Tom Brown, the schoolboy sent to Rugby school by the novelist Thomas Hughes in his novel "Tom Brown's Schooldays", in which Tom left home for the very first time and encountered.among many other things, the hideous fagging* system of English public schools, and of course the obnoxious bully Flashman. Pam Ayres has a distinct accent of the area - sounding quite rustic and characteristic of that part of rural Southern England... as was - the accent has tended to change considerably over recent years as a new generation springs up in which a form of standard EERP has taken over, with varying degrees of Estuarisation having some influence in some groups particularly - it can depend on background. As for T S Eliot, the subject of this thread, it's true that he acquired British nationality in the 1930s (I think it was, without checking) as he had already been living in England for quite some time before that. He would have mixed with a wide range of people from most sectors of English society as existed in England in those days, and it was inevitable that the constant exposure to the English English accent all around him would have had some effect on his own accent. The fact that he was undoubtedly an ardent Anglophile would also have been a major factor in the way he chose to speak the "Common Language".
*Fagging - the bizarre practice which was once rife in English public schools in which the younger boys were forced into performing all sorts of menial tasks for the much older boys in the school. They were mostly involuntarily recruited into all this by some kind of selection process by the older boys, and there were no ways in which the you ger boys could escape it as it was the "done thing" and a blind eye was invariably turned by the school authorities.
They routinely had to perform such duties as polishing shoes, making toast then spreading them with butter and jam, making pots of tea, making up beds, turning on baths, seeing to the older boys' laundry - all that kind of thing. I don't think this is anything like as widespread in English public schools as it once was, but I'm told it still goes on in some hallowed seats of learning such as Eton, Harrow, Charterhouse, Gordonstoun (in Scotland)etc etc.... It's was intended to be character building!
<< Poetry in Britain is not popular. >>
How can you make such a generalisation? It is popular with some people and unpopular with others, just like in other countries. This is not specific to Britain only. <<For such a great poet, he had a terrible voice.>> I agree with the poster who said that this was a bit of a non-sequitur. Why should a poet have a pleasant voice or be a talented performer? Most poets are not very good at reading out their poems. That's what actors are for. :-)
Is it a non sequitur or not?
A non sequitur is a conversational and literary device,...Its use can be deliberate or unintentional. Literally, it is Latin for "it does not follow". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(absurdism) <<For such a great poet, he had a terrible voice.>> You might reasonably expect a great poet to be good at reading his or her own peotry. You might think, that when they read it, it comes alive in a way that it doesn't when other people read it. Would you prefer to hear a Beatles song performed by 'The Beatles' or by someone doing a cover? Yet, in the example given; T.S. Eliot does not do his poem justice. He has a terrible voice. (Bob Dylan also had a terrible voice.) How can a 'great poet' have a 'terrible voice'? - it does not follow! It is a non sequitur If he cannot read his own poetry then he is not a great poet. Personally I do not have a high opinion of T. S. Eliot largely based on ignorance. But MrP avoids discussing T. S. Eliot, by attacking the comment that was made about him as a 'non sequitur' - a remark that lacks logic or foundation. Personally, I am prepared to accept that T.S. Eliot is either 1. not a great poet. or 2. A great poet with a terrible voice. MrP might argue that he is not a great poet if he has a terrible voice.
<<<A non sequitur is a conversational and literary device,...Its use can be deliberate or unintentional.
Literally, it is Latin for "it does not follow".>>> Exactly. So, what does that prove? <<<Would you prefer to hear a Beatles song performed by 'The Beatles' or by someone doing a cover?>>> That's an entirely different kettle of fish. Musicians are performers (provided that they are not songwriters only, which is quite rare), poets are not necessarily, except for spoken word poets of course. <<<How can a 'great poet' have a 'terrible voice'? - it does not follow! It is a non sequitur>>> No, it's not. <<<If he cannot read his own poetry then he is not a great poet.>>> Now, that's a non sequitur. :-) <<<MrP might argue that he is not a great poet if he has a terrible voice.>>> Quite the contrary. I think he was implying that there is no connection between being a great poet and having a pleasant voice (or being a good performer). That's why would the statement "if he has a terrible voice, he can't be a great poet".
Sorry, the last sentence should be: That's why would the statement "if he has a terrible voice, he can't be a great poet" be a non sequitur.
|