Rhotic vs. Non-Rhotic

Ditto on the intrusive r. I watched a movie where Jude Law did this constantly while he was hamming up an American accent.

Other than that, though, non-rhotic accents are pleasant to my ears.

The 'r' sound belongs to the language, so not pronouncing it or putting it in where it doesn't belong sounds wrong in my ears.

Non-rhotics sound odd, but not wrong. Obviously we rhotic speakers have heard non-rhotic accents on movies and radio all our lives, so we are used to the variant. The same probably goes for them. No, I've never switched back and forth,and yes, the R where it doesn't belong is more bizarre-sounding to me than the lack of R's that DO belong...funny, huh?

I used to be non-rhotic but I've incorporated more rhotticism into my speech lately. It sounds more classy and educated. People assume that you spent a lot of time studying in a top university in America, and hence are academically superior.

I'm surprised at what a big deal these 'intrusive R's' are. I've been using them my whole life without noticing it until I read about them. They're just there to make the words link up better. We don't necessarily here the 'r' when we say things like 'law and order'.

Trimac, undoubtedly true, but...

I'll give you an example of how it sounds to us. Pronounce the word "diarrhea" with the intrusive "r" in between each syllable: "dire-a-reer-a": hear how jarring it sounds?

>>Trimac, undoubtedly true, but...

I'll give you an example of how it sounds to us. Pronounce the word "diarrhea" with the intrusive "r" in between each syllable: "dire-a-reer-a": hear how jarring it sounds?<<

That makes me cringe; I cannot help but think of how I would pronounce how you specified such, which would be the horrible [ˌdəe̯ʁəːˈʁiːʁə(ː)].

Cambridge Dictionaries Online* does not specify any kind of similar horrible pronunciation for RP, though, even though I can just picture it myself...

* sorry, I do not have access to the OED

Jasper says: ***Pronounce the word "diarrhea"***

Och wow! - you even spell it differently as well as its pronunciation....over here it's "diarrhoea" and as for us Scots we tend to roll the "Rs" bit quite a bit, bonny wee rhotics that we are.

Not a very nice word to discuss at breakfast time - but of course, it isn't breakfast tie for many of you guys out there is it?

My wee dog is poorly according to my Mum...I'm quite upset....he was fine when I was home recently. I think he's pining for me. ;-(

Jasper Thu May 28, 2009 5:52 am GMT
Trimac, undoubtedly true, but...

I'll give you an example of how it sounds to us. Pronounce the word "diarrhea" with the intrusive "r" in between each syllable: "dire-a-reer-a": hear how jarring it sounds?

____________

I'm non-rhotic and I can tell you how I'd pronounce it: "dai-ya-reya"

I wouldn't put an 'r" where you put the first or last one.

I agree with Trimac in that for those of us who're non-rhotic, our "intrusive r" doesn't sound like 'r" for us at all, we're not even aware of doing/hearing it. It's just a way of linking sounds more naturally. I'm surprised it's so evident to the rhotic speakers. That's amazing! We've obviously got different ways of hearing it.

Rhotic doesn't sound more educated to me at all (or less, except that in England, the rhotic West Country accent's sometimes used to portray country bumpkins and slow countryside folk). I don't find a strong rhotic 'r" at all attractive, it sort of grates on my ears and sounds harsh and over the top, but your average rhotic speech sounds normal enough. I quite like the Scottish rolled "r" and least like the Northern Ireland harsh rhotic sound.

I just realised, maybe that's why that Bridget Jones actress sounded like her speech was all disjointed, sort of hacked into pieces somehow. She learned non-rhotic speech but coudn't do the linking 'r'. That's what rhotic people sound like when they imitate non-rhotic accents: not smooth, connected but with the sounds all broken up. That makes sense I suppose, after all, it's a "linking" r.

(Old film, sorry but it occurred to me what with this "r" topic).

"I'm non-rhotic and I can tell you how I'd pronounce it: "dai-ya-reya"
I wouldn't put an 'r" where you put the first or last one. "

NONRHOTIC, I believe that the point was missed.

We assert that the presence of the linking "r" is jarring in an otherwise very pleasant dialect, and the butchered pronunciation of the word diarrhea was offered as an example of how it might sound to YOU.

Let's try again: if someone were to pronounce the word "idea" as "i-deer-a", wouldn't it sound jarring to you?

The most curious thing about that linking "r" is that it seems to be the absolute hardest thing for English actors to drop, when they try to emulate an American accent; it gives them away every time.

NONRHOTIC: your observations about the Bridget Jones film are very interesting.

Nonrhotic, do you remember what the name of the Bridget Jones film was? I'd like to hear what you're hearing, viz., a rhotic actress trying to be non-rhotic, but failing because she didn't use the linking 'r'....

Not to overegg the pudding (I love those colorful English expressions), sometimes Americans, not understanding the purpose of the linking "r", poke gentle fun at the speakers when they hear it.

I once worked with a New Zealander who asked the cook for "cole slore and potato salad". The cooks, from that point forward, asked him,"Hey, Geoffrey, do you need cole slore?"

I remember my parents chuckling at Teddy Kennedy in the 70s when he said "Cuber and the United States". My father said, "He pronounces Cuba as 'Cuber"; I thought he'd been to Hahvud!" (New England is one of the few places in the US that retains the linking "r")

Forummates, I'm not trying to make fun of you, merely show you how jarring it really sounds to us, in the spirit of language...especially if we don't understand the purpose of it.

<<I agree with Trimac in that for those of us who're non-rhotic, our "intrusive r" doesn't sound like 'r" for us at all, we're not even aware of doing/hearing it. It's just a way of linking sounds more naturally. I'm surprised it's so evident to the rhotic speakers. That's amazing! We've obviously got different ways of hearing it.>>

If it's any consolation, there is a parallel in American speech: we don't notice or "hear" when we turn intervocalic T's into D's (or flap them, as the linguists will immediately correct me), as in the words little and sitter ("liddle" and "sidder"). Nor do we notice when we drop them altogether, as we sometimes do in international and splinter ("innernational" and "splinner"). In our minds the T is still a T -- and yet it can be so unconscious that I have caught myself spelling latter as "ladder" -- exactly the way i would say it out loud.

Funny when I say 'diarrhea' I think I'm saying it how it's spelt. Dya-reah with a silent 'h' not two 'r's.' It's interesting how Americans or rhotic speakers interpret it as such.

Not sure about Bridget Jones, not knowing about intrusive 'r's when I saw it I never noticed it but now I will take note of it.

I'm not sure if all Americans are 'deaf' to intervocalic T's and D's. I notice some older Americans DO pronounce the 't' in certain circumstances. Remember Ed Sullivan introducing the 'BeaTles?' Maybe he did it to sound more proper/British but I have heard older Americans say the 't' in words like 'butter.'

I notice GAE has grown more rhotic: in the 1950s it seemed partly rhotic, even the Hollywood version, now it's very rhotic, especially Californian. Up there with West Country and Irish.