To native English speakers: "RA"

American   Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:50 pm GMT
If you're cot-caught merged, then are you bother-father unmerged? How do you pronounce Ra and raw differently? How many ah or aw-like sounds do you have in your dialect? Or do you pronounce Ra with the vowel like in "rat"?

So is it like raht rot rawt or rat?

For me the first three are merely spelling variations of the same "ah" vowel, but the last on is distinct.
Jasper   Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:06 pm GMT
URIEL: hmm. I would have thought being cot-caught merged, you'd pronounce them exactly the same.

I speak a hybrid Western/Southern dialect, and I would pronounce RA and "raw" exactly the same.
Uriel   Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:06 pm GMT
I was an army brat, so technically I'm not from anywhere, although I've lived in the west since I was 18. But I imagine there are various influences on my speech. For the most part, yes, I am cot-caught merged -- but I always was, even when I lived in the east.
Uriel   Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:28 am GMT
I suppose I am also father-bother merged; they rhyme for me. I would say "rah" has a more open sound than raw. I round my lips a little more for raw to give it that W sound. However, I don't do this for straw or flaw, so maybe raw is a little exception for me. But it also varies a little for me; in an unstressed position like "raw meat" I would say "rah meat". But when saying "the meat is still raw", I do use the rounded lips to say a definite "raw".

And I can't believe I just broke all that down! Wow!
Kitsch   Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:16 am GMT
Uriel, I think I'm somewhere along the same as with you in the raw department. Maybe I'm off and they sound the same, but the way the sounds are formed are different. I think I say "raw" with a more rounded, long o quality to it. The lower jaw juts out a bit as opposed to...say the almost identical sounding word word "rod". I don't just take the d sound to the end of "raw." The vowel sound is clipped, pure. They're very close, almost the same vowel sound, but the w does something. I think maybe it's something along the lines of a weak dipthong...I don't know. Similarly, I pronounce bra differently than raw. I think bra is where I would sound like American is asking about above.

Also, the stressed vs. unstressed position definitely has something to do with it. The sound is far more exaggerated, as, like she mentioned, with a "definite raw." Maybe that's what I was thinking about initially.

Unlike Uriel, however, I use the same sound as raw for straw. Other words like this are: slaw, claw, guffaw, saw. The only -aw word I can think of that comes out like bra is flaw. Not sure why, probably just an individual peculiarity on my part.

This is really interesting and I'm glad someone else notices this too and that I wasn't just off my rocker, ha, ha.

However, I'm in Montana, which has varied amalgamation of speakers from individual to individual. In most of the state, a heavy Canadian influence isn't uncommon, as well as, to a lesser degree, people with a strong North Dakot/Minnesota/midwest sound. In the eastern part of the state, however, it isn't uncommon for people to have a definite Texas sounding speech. It's odd and, I suppose in my case, inconsistant.
American   Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:47 am GMT
As for me, since I'm fully merged, there is no distinction whatsoever, even slight between rah and raw. To others some days they sound like rah, other times as raw.
American   Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:47 pm GMT
>>However, I'm in Montana, which has varied amalgamation of speakers from ndividual to individual. In most of the state, a heavy Canadian influence isn' uncommon, as well as, to a lesser degree, people with a strong North Dakot/Minnesota/midwest sound. In the eastern part of the state, however, it isn' uncommon for people to have a definite Texas sounding speech. It's odd and, I suppose in my case, inconsistant <<

Very interesting. Can you describe some of the other pronunciations found in Montana that differ from Standard American speech?