Transforming "these + noun + have a".

MikeyC   Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:17 am GMT
I saw this sentence today:

[STRIKE]Odd sense of fairness, these kids![/STRIKE]

That is obviously a part of the whole "these kids have got a stupid sense fairness". I was just wondering if there are any restrictions upon transformations of the "these + noun + have a" type.

For example, how do these sound?

1. these patients have a normal menstrual history and are of proved fertility >>> normal menstrual history and (are) of proved fertility, these patients

2. these guys have a shot in being the BEST dancers of all time >>> have a shot in being the BEST dancers of all time, these guys

3. most of these patients have a coarctation >>> have a coarctation, most of these patients

4. These discus have a distinctive pattern of fine lines and dots on their gill plates >>> have a distinctive pattern of fine lines and dots on their gill plates, these discus

5. the new model has a global positioning system >>> a global positioning system, the new model has
umm   Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:22 pm GMT
Your examples sound like Yoda from Star Wars. The original example works because first of all, it's an exclamation, and second of all your examples sound too serious/scientific.
Rapp   Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:50 pm GMT
No, none of your examples work, because this pattern is really intended to make a joke or ironic statement. The original sentence you asked about implies that most people would find what the kids are doing not fair at all.

The best explanation I can come up with is that the first sentence is a transformation:

What a (noun phrase) these (plural noun) have

becomes

(noun phrase), these (plural noun)

And I would really expect the noun phrase to be succinct and, in a sense, obvious. For instance, "Distinctive pattern, these discus" sounds a lot better to me than the way you phrased it, and I would expect to understand how the pattern is distinctive as soon as I looked at the discus.
Lazar   Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:13 pm GMT
I agree with Umm and Rapp: none of those examples work.