Enforcing the artificial US/UK English divide

Damian London SW15   Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:48 pm GMT
****save for an Irishman who was really very sweet***

All Irishmen are "really very sweet" - they have to be because they say so themselves - it's all part of a technique called "blarney" - they've all kissed the stone at Blarney Castle in SW Ireland.....lean back until you are supine, supported by a mate, and then kiss the stone and you're endowed with the power of the "blarney" for ever more.

Actually many of them are "really very sweet" - I've only been to Ireland once, for a few fleeting hours only on a trip over from Holyhead, North Wales, and those two Irish gardai my mate and I met at Dun Laoghaire* really were "really very sweet".

*Dun Laoghaire - the name of the port and ferry terminal close to Dublin - it's pronounced as "Lairy".
Rene   Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:44 pm GMT
Damian.... are you mocking me? That's OK. I guess it was a weird way to word it. Actually, this guy had a little too much of the gift of gab. I was trying to get to work when I stopped in his shop to ask a question. Pretty soon, he was telling me about his guitar and what not while I was getting later and later.
Uriel   Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:55 pm GMT
<<The most disadvantaged, the most marginalised, members of British society are young, urban black males - they really are in a class of their own here in the UK, so to speak, and most don't seem to want to break away from that situation.

This section of British society features very prominently in the violent crime, unemployment and educational under-achievement statistics - by a very long way.

Every large urban/metropolitan area in the UK has such sections in the population, but in particular London is very much a focal point for this, and this group is very much concentrated in certain areas of the whole metropolitan area, and what's more they make every effort to maintain their own kind of "ghetto-speak" which seems to be a mix of Caribbean creole type lingo and a form of London type Estuary.>>

I remember from a series of social anthropology classes that the theory behind this is that groups who perceive that they cannot assimilate into the mainstream society and succeed there often turn away from that aim and try instead to create an alternate society where they CAN succeed. They will create different rules and criteria for success within these enclaves, and often use language, dialect, and behavior to create a group identity that can then be advertised to other members of the group. Sometimes its overt and aggressive, sometimes not, depending on the group in question. Sometimes they codeswitch back and forth as the situation warrants. Often a rejection of the language and norms of the dominant society is part of the alternate identity. It's common in blacks in the US and the UK, but it's also a feature of a number of immigrant groups as well. It probably also explains the behavior of ethnic or linguistic groups in countries with multiple and fairly separate societies, like Belgium and Canada, where inclusiveness is preached and encouraged but often not practiced. (Or think about all the British ex-pats in Spain, or about American military bases abroad. If they have it made within their own environment, why integrate into the wider society around them when they will only be at a disadvantage?)

Basically, the drive to be able to have an environment wherein one can compete and be successful outweighs the powerful drive to conform to a given standard, and when people feel that they will always be handicapped, by language or looks or whatever, they seek to create their own social order wherein they can climb the ladder successfully. When people feel like they would be better served in their climb up the ladder by assimilating (and think they can pull it off), they choose that route instead. So the driving force behind this theory is not the will to conform, but the urge to compete. And there are different strategies that people can employ to gain a competitive edge, given their various situations.
Damian London SW15   Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:59 pm GMT
***Damian.... are you mocking me? That's OK***

Rene: No I wasn't, absolutely I wasn't, and even if I was it would NOT be OK!

It's just that the Irish really do have the ability to "sweet talk" - and as I say it's called blarney over in Ireland - that is all part of the charm of the Irish.....it's Paddy Power. What else would you expect in the land of shamrock and wee leprechauns sitting on toadstools and winking at you.

You should hear the average Irishman once he's had a Guinness or two or three or four or more......

Uriel - brilliant as ever! Cheers my wee flower!