About English Dictionaries (British & American)
K. T.
Thank you for your reply, but I'm afraid <Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary>, along with <Merriam-Webster's Advanced Learner's Dictionary> is designed only for native Americans or those learners of American English (not British), so besides my Longman, I would like to get 2 British editions else, one is for native British, & the other is for those learners of British English (one of Oxford/Cambridge/Collins). Of course, maybe I'm biased towards American dictionaries. hehehe
Tom*, a friend of mine suggested that I should get a dictionary for English native speakers. And I was wondering how you think about Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary, compared with Cambridge Advanced and Collins Advanced. Thanks!
Is Oxford advanced learner's English dictionary really the best one for foreign learners who wants to learn British English?
The Longman-MerriamWebster combo is the best a learner can find, in my opinion. Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English and Merriam Webster Collegiate, one is a learner's dictionary, and the other is a complete dictionary for native speakers. You need both if you really want to become an "advanced learner".
Johnny, thank you for your advice, but Merriam-Webster Collegiate mainly teaches us American English, instead of British style.
I read Tom's article, and I agree: I think Longman is the best. In my opinion, it's easier to understand, and it's clearer.
But I wanted to make one thing clear: just because it's the best you can find, doesn't mean it's perfect, or that it's a resource you can trust like it's the only truth.
No dictionary is perfect. For example, they usually include all the possible structures and the most common collocations for each verb, but no dictionary mentions "to hate" + "that" + "clause". Ex: "I hate that she never feels like coming." No dictionary at all. I suspect native speakers say a lot of things that are not in the dictionaries.
TianJiner, I'm sorry to say that there are no British dictionaries that are as good as Merriam Webster is (for American English). I was looking for a good one for British English too, but it just doesn't exist.
Merriam Webster is the only dictionary that gives "git" as a possible pronunciation of "get", and it's very comprehensive. For British English, there seem to be nothing that good. For example, a good British dictionary would have to include "mum" pronounced with a vowel like in "put" too.
Johnny, Thanks! Your viewpoint on Longman & Merriam-Webster is of great help for me. As you highly recommended, I would be inclined to buy a Merriam-Webster Collegiate, though my plan was to buy a Concise Oxford English Dictionary, and now I've got another question to inquire about, how do you think of American Heritage College Dictionary? It's not as good as Merriam-Webster, right? I would appreciate it if you like to answer my question.
"I hate that he..." strikes me as substandard English and, in my view, dictionaries should not list it. I would say "I hate the fact that...".
About the Merriam-Webster: It's funny -- I feel that it gives too many pronunciations. A dictionary should not list all the possible ways various social and regional groups diverge from standard pronunciation. I mean, MW lists things like "git" and "ketch" (catch). Learners should not talk like that and if they take MW too seriously, they may feel that these forms are perfectly equivalent to "get" and "catch". The common assumption is that a dictionary presents the most "correct" and desirable form of a language, but the MW does not meet that expectation.
I also disagree with your suggestion that British dictionaries should list regional pronunciations like "coot" for "cut" (if I understood you correctly). Actually, I don't mind if they list it, but it should appear in a separate box (accessible after you click on a button or something) and should be clearly marked as "not RP".
Also, where did I write that Longman is the best? It has the best content (not by much, mind you), but the software is utter crap and the fact that it needs the damn DVD in the drive all the time (+ the geological startup time) means that I just launch the Cambridge or the Collins most of the time. By the time I would have launched the LDOCE, I will have looked up 2-3 words in the Cambridge.
The Longman is the best for longer, planned sessions -- things like adding SuperMemo items for an hour.
Tianjiner, why are you asking me about the OALD? I did include it in my review, didn't I?
I'm using
Collins Cobuild
Merriam-Webster advanced learner's Dictionary
Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English
(and rarely Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary)
All of them are really fantastic.
I recommend -
Definition: Collins Cobuild(Very detailed) & Longman(Understandable)
Example Sentences: Collins Cobuild(Nice) & Merriam(REALLY A LOT)
"I suspect native speakers say a lot of things that are not in the dictionaries."
Dictionaries by their very nature are playing a game of 'catch up'. They record words that are in circulation, after they are in circulation.
A word could be in vogue and then fall out of fashion, without ever achieving an entry in a dictionary.
Grammatical expressions: "I hate that he ...." That does not strike me as being incorrect. Personally I don't like people using words like 'crap'. A lot boils down to personal preference and there is regional variety.
"I hate the fact, that he ..." sounds better.
Possibly, "I hate that he" is substandard. But how easy is it to tell someone that their speech is substandard. I would not list it in a dictionary as being an example of correct speech.
Surely, at the end of the day, grammar and vocabulary start by recording what people say and end up by influencing what people say.
The BBC News Reporters quite often make ungrammatical remarks. They will possibly start talking about something in the plural and then change their mind, and refer to it in the singular. What tends to mark out foreign speakers is that they tend to make systematic errors, like confusing 'v' with 'w'.
So, what is a scouse git?
*MW lists things like "git" and "ketch" (catch). Learners should not talk like that and if they take MW too seriously..
*
get [git] is Southern US pronunciation
catch [ketch] is Midwestern US & Canadian
<<The common assumption is that a dictionary presents the most "correct" and desirable form of a language>>
Yes, but how do they know what the most "desirable" form is to me? And it a dictionary is comprehensive, it should contain as much information as possible, of any kind.
That's why, hypothetically speaking, a dictionary can't be perfect.
Longman + Merriam Webster Collegiate is the best combination I found, anyway. Longman is a learner's dictionary and helps you with collocations and usage, and Merriam Webster has all the meanings that are not listed in learner's dictionaries (ex: the verb "to sleep" used transitively is not mentioned in Longman) and has the pronunciations of advanced words (ex: "Mnemosyne", the Greek goddess, or "tritium").
Tom! There is a way to fix a problem. It involves using YASU and crack and a deamon tool software. I have already tested it and now I dont have to emalute the DVD :). I have read that there is a patch...
