I meant "toward ocashionnally"
What's wrong with my accent and how can I improve it?
Thanks for your detailed answer, anonymous2 :) By the way, have you tried
Ann Cook's "American Accent Training"? It was very helpful for me.
Ann Cook's "American Accent Training"? It was very helpful for me.
Hi anonymous2. The link gave me an error so I can't comment on your accent. However I listened to the 1st sample from the 2nd link (the speech archive thingy about getting shopping). It was a really strong Russian accent. If yours sounds anything like that, maybe you need to do some work on it. I would record something from radio or tv, spoken by someone whose accent you find acceptable, then record the same text and compare the two.
Anyway, here's my advice, and I speak from experience as a native English speaker from Scotland who has given a lot of thought to how much I would want to modify my strong Scottish accent. The conclusion that I came to was, to pay attention to clear diction. Pronounce your words carefully. Be friendly and look at people when talking to them. Avoid appearing shifty or apologetic. Like the Scots, the Russians are intelligent, educated people who don't need to be ashamed of anything.
Good luck!
Anyway, here's my advice, and I speak from experience as a native English speaker from Scotland who has given a lot of thought to how much I would want to modify my strong Scottish accent. The conclusion that I came to was, to pay attention to clear diction. Pronounce your words carefully. Be friendly and look at people when talking to them. Avoid appearing shifty or apologetic. Like the Scots, the Russians are intelligent, educated people who don't need to be ashamed of anything.
Good luck!
By the way, this is approximately how I speak:
http://accent.gmu.edu/searchsaa.php?function=detail&speakerid=82
http://accent.gmu.edu/searchsaa.php?function=detail&speakerid=82
I hope I don't sound like that, but I'm not sure. Uploadhut goes down every once in a while, but it should be back up shortly. In my opinion, there is a big difference between a legitimate dialect, which simply sounds different from the one spoken in a given region, and a strong "foreign" (non-native) accent, which signals lack of proficiency in the language. This is especially true in cultures that embraced "pure" multiculturalism with an anti-melting pot mentality because as soon as people hear a strong accent, they start perceiving you as a member of a different cultural community, and it's as if you had no business hanging out with them. They won't actually say that though. It has nothing to do with sounding "edumacated". I just don't want to hear the word Russia every five seconds. To me, it only happens with 1 person out of 10, but that one person can turn a social occasion into a nightmare...
I know people will still be able to figure out where I'm from... by asking indirect questions. Because Montreal is so diverse, not everyone spots my accent right away (or at least some people pretend not to). However, they eventually ask me things like "What primary school did you go to?" or "Did you grow up in Mtl?", and there's no way I can "dodge" those questions without coming up with a fake identity...
Don't get me wrong... I'm fully aware that I don't sound the least bit nativelike. The thing is, if I didn't have that much of an accent, I would feel much more comfortable with Canadians, and I could just ignore those comments. But now I feel as if the people who stubbornly focus on my cultural background were "putting me back into my place".
I know people will still be able to figure out where I'm from... by asking indirect questions. Because Montreal is so diverse, not everyone spots my accent right away (or at least some people pretend not to). However, they eventually ask me things like "What primary school did you go to?" or "Did you grow up in Mtl?", and there's no way I can "dodge" those questions without coming up with a fake identity...
Don't get me wrong... I'm fully aware that I don't sound the least bit nativelike. The thing is, if I didn't have that much of an accent, I would feel much more comfortable with Canadians, and I could just ignore those comments. But now I feel as if the people who stubbornly focus on my cultural background were "putting me back into my place".
Like I said, I can't please everybody. My "marry/merry"s may sound good to Midwestern people but off to guys from California.
I hate to break it to you, Thomas, but regarding vowel length, I have american coworkers that tend to exaggerate. The take a loooong time to pronounce the vowel of some words (and they do that very often!). So, that specific thing is a matter of perspective or taste. Take Kirk for example, he finds no vowel length difference between the word "foot" and "foot." Other americans do.
Regarding "occasionally", that is OK, and you can check a dictionary if you need to. About newspaper you're right; I don't know why I said newspAper instead of nEWspaper. But even so, you can listen to americans make that "mistake," just like the do it when saying the noun "addrEss" instead of "Address." The same happens with "dEtail" and "detAIl." This is a matter of regionalism.
With my "newscaster" intonation (which in this recording I did not make), I do not sound like a Japanese. You definitely need to pay a lot of attention to japanese speakers for at least a month, bro. Their intonation is waaaaay different from that of americans of Spanish speakers.
Also, like I mentioned before, I made that recording when my family was asleep. I recorded myself and I was like, "this is not OK to me, there's something weird" and I wasn't even happy with it. I listened to myself the next day and it sounded odd even to me!
So I hate to break it to you again, Tom, but about 98% of the americans I have met believe that I grew up in the US, so your opinion just becomes part of the minority. So... well... yes, there is "YES" way that I sound like a native speaker of American English, hehehe.
Cheers!
P.D.: just in case, if you didn't get it, the "YES" way was on purpose; I know it's wrong.
I hate to break it to you, Thomas, but regarding vowel length, I have american coworkers that tend to exaggerate. The take a loooong time to pronounce the vowel of some words (and they do that very often!). So, that specific thing is a matter of perspective or taste. Take Kirk for example, he finds no vowel length difference between the word "foot" and "foot." Other americans do.
Regarding "occasionally", that is OK, and you can check a dictionary if you need to. About newspaper you're right; I don't know why I said newspAper instead of nEWspaper. But even so, you can listen to americans make that "mistake," just like the do it when saying the noun "addrEss" instead of "Address." The same happens with "dEtail" and "detAIl." This is a matter of regionalism.
With my "newscaster" intonation (which in this recording I did not make), I do not sound like a Japanese. You definitely need to pay a lot of attention to japanese speakers for at least a month, bro. Their intonation is waaaaay different from that of americans of Spanish speakers.
Also, like I mentioned before, I made that recording when my family was asleep. I recorded myself and I was like, "this is not OK to me, there's something weird" and I wasn't even happy with it. I listened to myself the next day and it sounded odd even to me!
So I hate to break it to you again, Tom, but about 98% of the americans I have met believe that I grew up in the US, so your opinion just becomes part of the minority. So... well... yes, there is "YES" way that I sound like a native speaker of American English, hehehe.
Cheers!
P.D.: just in case, if you didn't get it, the "YES" way was on purpose; I know it's wrong.
Well, regarding the lengths of your syllables, English (unlike Spanish) is a stressed-timed language, which means that you need to reduce the lengths of unstressed syllables, so that stressed syllables appear at an approximately constant rate. Notice, for instance, how you make the schwa in "detective" or even the "nt" in "wasn't" a full syllable. As someone coming from a (stressed-timed) native language with a phonemic wovel length distinction, this might even be more apparent to me than to native speakers, but still, I hardly think it will go unnoticed.
Maybe your stress in "occasionally" was right, but there was still something weird about that word (apart from the [S] which should have been a [Z]).
I didn't say, btw, that you had a Japanese accent, just that you reminded me of that Japanese reporter (which is of course voiced by an American), who has a similar intonation (which you at least have toward the end), a similar timing and, come to think of it, also a rather nasal voice.
PS. I don't intend to pick on your mistakes, I was just a little annoyed with your bragging about yourself, while you, possibly unaware of regional variations, were stating that I wasn't even getting basic vowels right. Sorry if I came on too strong.
PPS. And for god's sake, don't call me "bro".
Maybe your stress in "occasionally" was right, but there was still something weird about that word (apart from the [S] which should have been a [Z]).
I didn't say, btw, that you had a Japanese accent, just that you reminded me of that Japanese reporter (which is of course voiced by an American), who has a similar intonation (which you at least have toward the end), a similar timing and, come to think of it, also a rather nasal voice.
PS. I don't intend to pick on your mistakes, I was just a little annoyed with your bragging about yourself, while you, possibly unaware of regional variations, were stating that I wasn't even getting basic vowels right. Sorry if I came on too strong.
PPS. And for god's sake, don't call me "bro".
Yeah, I know how to unstressed syllables work; but the complete pronunciation of some words, sometimes, is not a matter of "foreign" accent, that is a matter of timing... I spoke slowly in that recording. You can listen to natives speaking slowly; they do the same when it comes to proper diction. But that, of course, is another story.
Every word has a stressed syllable, but even if you make stressed syllables appear at an approximately constant rate it does not mean that you do it well, because you may be stressing the incorrect words in a sentence. By that I mean that people may misunderstand what you're trying to say simply because of this phenomenon; that usually happens to English learners.
Take, for example, the following sentence:
I went to my apartment to get my jacket.
You can time it like this (capitals represent the stressed syllable):
I wEnt to mY apArtment tO get mY jacket.
You can do that while keeping perfect timing but, of course, it sounds totally weird. Instead, you need to stress specific words in addition to normal syllable stress, like this (Lujan refers to it as "staircase intonation" in The American Accent Guide):
i wEnt to my apArtment to get my jAcket.
In order to keep a constant rhythm, you need to speed up when saying "...ment to get my" but people will understand. That's very common in English.
And, like I said before, maybe I need to record myself just talking about anything so that you notice the difference, cause even to me that recording sounded extremely different.
Nasal? That recording it not nasal; I just reinforced the upper harmonics of my voice (which is pretty normal in opera singing), and that is perceived by some listeners as nasal. If you check the spectrum of that recording, you'll notice a strong level of sound in the region of 2500 to 3300 Hz, which is expected then you project the voice (but not present in a nasal voice).
Now that you mention the [Z] phoneme. It's curious, but I have mentioned that distintive sound to some americans and they don't recognize it. Some of them don't even do it!! Have you noticed that??
And yes, you came too strong. I wasn't bragging about myself; but I am proud of what I have achieved because Americans that told me that without me having to ask for their opinion. Additionally, I said that I can't please everybody, not that everybody think I have a "perfect" accent. Read well.
On the other hand, if you did not like my opinion about your "sounds that do not belong to American English," you should have told me that from the very beginning, instead of criticizing like this. What bothers me is to know that you felt offended and decided to hit back in that way while being a German. Remember, I made a good guess about your native tongue; not because of making a random choice, but because of the things I noticed in your spoken English.
Regards
Every word has a stressed syllable, but even if you make stressed syllables appear at an approximately constant rate it does not mean that you do it well, because you may be stressing the incorrect words in a sentence. By that I mean that people may misunderstand what you're trying to say simply because of this phenomenon; that usually happens to English learners.
Take, for example, the following sentence:
I went to my apartment to get my jacket.
You can time it like this (capitals represent the stressed syllable):
I wEnt to mY apArtment tO get mY jacket.
You can do that while keeping perfect timing but, of course, it sounds totally weird. Instead, you need to stress specific words in addition to normal syllable stress, like this (Lujan refers to it as "staircase intonation" in The American Accent Guide):
i wEnt to my apArtment to get my jAcket.
In order to keep a constant rhythm, you need to speed up when saying "...ment to get my" but people will understand. That's very common in English.
And, like I said before, maybe I need to record myself just talking about anything so that you notice the difference, cause even to me that recording sounded extremely different.
Nasal? That recording it not nasal; I just reinforced the upper harmonics of my voice (which is pretty normal in opera singing), and that is perceived by some listeners as nasal. If you check the spectrum of that recording, you'll notice a strong level of sound in the region of 2500 to 3300 Hz, which is expected then you project the voice (but not present in a nasal voice).
Now that you mention the [Z] phoneme. It's curious, but I have mentioned that distintive sound to some americans and they don't recognize it. Some of them don't even do it!! Have you noticed that??
And yes, you came too strong. I wasn't bragging about myself; but I am proud of what I have achieved because Americans that told me that without me having to ask for their opinion. Additionally, I said that I can't please everybody, not that everybody think I have a "perfect" accent. Read well.
On the other hand, if you did not like my opinion about your "sounds that do not belong to American English," you should have told me that from the very beginning, instead of criticizing like this. What bothers me is to know that you felt offended and decided to hit back in that way while being a German. Remember, I made a good guess about your native tongue; not because of making a random choice, but because of the things I noticed in your spoken English.
Regards
You are taking this way too personal, I didn't mean to put you down, I just couldn't believe your claims based on that recording. You were repeating them a little too frequently for my taste - often without supporting any of your points.
No, I have never heard any native speaker substitute [S] for [Z], which of course doesn't mean such substitution doesn't exist, but certainly, it is very rare.
Yes, opera singers sound somewhat nasal to me (at least iirc), but their speech is highly unnatural anyway, so I wonder why one would want to copy it (possibly for the same reason that stereotypical asian reporter does?). Anyway, some Americans also sound nasal, so that is hardly a reliable criterion to tell native from non-native speech, I was just explaining my association.
About that "sounds that do not belong to American English" (a quite harsh statement in itself, as it hints something like substituting of [z] for [D]), I asked you what these were supposed to be and didn't get an answer which is what I really didn't like. Note, however, that I wasn't "critizing" you out of spite (in fact I don't think I have critized you at all) and that I do think (and thought when I first heard the recording) that your pronunciation in it couldn't pass as 'native'.
If you just had a very bad day, fine, then I might have gotten a totally wrong impression of your speech.
No, I have never heard any native speaker substitute [S] for [Z], which of course doesn't mean such substitution doesn't exist, but certainly, it is very rare.
Yes, opera singers sound somewhat nasal to me (at least iirc), but their speech is highly unnatural anyway, so I wonder why one would want to copy it (possibly for the same reason that stereotypical asian reporter does?). Anyway, some Americans also sound nasal, so that is hardly a reliable criterion to tell native from non-native speech, I was just explaining my association.
About that "sounds that do not belong to American English" (a quite harsh statement in itself, as it hints something like substituting of [z] for [D]), I asked you what these were supposed to be and didn't get an answer which is what I really didn't like. Note, however, that I wasn't "critizing" you out of spite (in fact I don't think I have critized you at all) and that I do think (and thought when I first heard the recording) that your pronunciation in it couldn't pass as 'native'.
If you just had a very bad day, fine, then I might have gotten a totally wrong impression of your speech.
>>Now that you mention the [Z] phoneme. It's curious, but I have mentioned that distintive sound to some americans and they don't recognize it. Some of them don't even do it!! Have you noticed that??<<
>>No, I have never heard any native speaker substitute [S] for [Z], which of course doesn't mean such substitution doesn't exist, but certainly, it is very rare.<<
One note is that it appears that NAE generally has /Z/, but one thing that is common is the replacement of word-final /Z/ with /dZ/. However, as for [S], even though such is not common, my dialect of NAE (that of Milwaukee, WI) has a sort of full word-final devoicing such that [Z_0] appears word-finally instead of [Z] proper. Note though that this is lenis, unlike the fortis [S] proper from /S/ in the same position, and also involves having a markedly long preceding vowel rather than a short preceding vowel as well.
>>No, I have never heard any native speaker substitute [S] for [Z], which of course doesn't mean such substitution doesn't exist, but certainly, it is very rare.<<
One note is that it appears that NAE generally has /Z/, but one thing that is common is the replacement of word-final /Z/ with /dZ/. However, as for [S], even though such is not common, my dialect of NAE (that of Milwaukee, WI) has a sort of full word-final devoicing such that [Z_0] appears word-finally instead of [Z] proper. Note though that this is lenis, unlike the fortis [S] proper from /S/ in the same position, and also involves having a markedly long preceding vowel rather than a short preceding vowel as well.
<<"addrEss" instead of "Address.">>
Saying addrEss is not a mistake. They use that pronunciation all aver England. And to be honest, I pronounce it like that as well.
So both of them are perfectly correct since used by native speakers.
<<that your pronunciation in it couldn't pass as 'native'.>>
Well, Cesar's accent sounds quite American to me. And perhaps as I am no native-speaker there might be some mispronunciations I cannot notice. And because of the fact that I can't distinguish between different American accents, Cesar's accent sounds to me like the typical American accent.
I know that the "typical American" stuff might sound strange for some people. But I really cannot tell the difference between a person from Michigan and someone from New York or Miami or even somewhere in Canada. They all sound the same to me. But of course I can recognise that annoying cowboy's accent, wherever it comes from. You don't worry, Cesar, be cool. You don't have a rustic cowboy's accent, you sound really quite nice to me, and above all, understandable and clear.
I'm very sorry if any cowboy reading this felt offended. I know that it's not your fault having that annoying accent, you can still be forgiven for that.
And Cesar, do not call Germans or Englishmen a 'bro'. I guess they don't like it very much.
Pete
Saying addrEss is not a mistake. They use that pronunciation all aver England. And to be honest, I pronounce it like that as well.
So both of them are perfectly correct since used by native speakers.
<<that your pronunciation in it couldn't pass as 'native'.>>
Well, Cesar's accent sounds quite American to me. And perhaps as I am no native-speaker there might be some mispronunciations I cannot notice. And because of the fact that I can't distinguish between different American accents, Cesar's accent sounds to me like the typical American accent.
I know that the "typical American" stuff might sound strange for some people. But I really cannot tell the difference between a person from Michigan and someone from New York or Miami or even somewhere in Canada. They all sound the same to me. But of course I can recognise that annoying cowboy's accent, wherever it comes from. You don't worry, Cesar, be cool. You don't have a rustic cowboy's accent, you sound really quite nice to me, and above all, understandable and clear.
I'm very sorry if any cowboy reading this felt offended. I know that it's not your fault having that annoying accent, you can still be forgiven for that.
And Cesar, do not call Germans or Englishmen a 'bro'. I guess they don't like it very much.
Pete