Pronunciation difference between NAmE and BrE

Travis   Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:02 pm GMT
You are forgetting about NCVS-shifted dialects; my own dialect here in Milwaukee has [ˈpʰasʲtʲə(ː)]~[ˈpʰasʲːə(ː)], corresponding to historical /ˈpʰɑːstə/, that is, that it the "right" vowel quality while corresponding to the traditional American pronunciation phonemically.
Tim   Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:20 pm GMT
Guys, what about the percentage I asked about in the first post? Can you give me some ideas? So far, I've got a 75% difference in pronunciation (excluding r's only).
Pub Lunch   Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:22 pm GMT
"I can finally have a fag in public" - Uriel that must have creased you up!! If I am ever in America again I might have to use that one instead of my "smoke a fag" joke!! It's all funny stuff!! Don't even get me started on 'fanny packs'!!! Oh dear!!

The point I was trying to make with how American's pronounce "pasta" is that it doesn't go true to form with how they pronounce words such as 'faster or 'last' etc and the same rings true with how we here in the South of England would pronounce it - i.e.opposite to how we pronounce similar sounding words.
Uriel   Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:03 am GMT
<<No, "last" and "lost" are not homophones in BrE.
But it so happens that if a Londoner, for instance,
says "last," an LA-born might think that the London fella
has said "lost" instead.

This has happened to me before, as I am cot-caught merged.
My friend from England said something about "last year,"
but I initially heard "lost year"... >>

True. Their "ah" is the closest thing to our short O. To my ears, which are also cot-caught merged American, the actual English short O sounds almost like a cross between a long U and an "aw" -- not a sound I ever make in natural speech. Their long O is a weird noise that sounds like it starts as an E and ends up as an O -- also a sound I never make.
Another Guest   Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:52 am GMT
<<No, "last" and "lost" are not homophones in BrE.
But it so happens that if a Londoner, for instance,
says "last," an LA-born might think that the London fella
has said "lost" instead.

This has happened to me before, as I am cot-caught merged.
My friend from England said something about "last year,"
but I initially heard "lost year"...

I hope that clarifies things for you.>>

Not really. What vowel do they use for "lost"?

<<A bother-father-cot-caught merged American that pronounces "pasta" as [p_hQst@] is hardly ptonouncing it like in the original language. Even [p_hAst@] (pahstuh) is incorrect. I believe that the closest is a California vowel shifted individual's pronunciation of the vowel in the word "pass" for "pasta" (which also sounds like the "ah" vowel to other Americans)>>

[p{st@] is a better approximation than [pAst@]?
feati   Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:49 am GMT
RP:
/{/: pasta, trap
/A:/: father, dance, last, bath
/Q/: bother, lot, lost, gone, wrong
/O:/: daughter, law, lore

GenAm:
/{/: dance, last, trap, bath
/A:/ father, bother, lot, pasta
/Q:/: lost, gone, wrong, daughter, law
/O@`/: lore

Italians use [a_"] in "pasta", which is closer to [A] than to [{] and the realization of /A:/ in NCVS-shifted dialects (Upper Midwest) and of /{/ in many modern British Accents and for people with a strong Californian/Canadian shift.
Kendra   Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:17 am GMT
Western GenAm:

/ẽⁿ/: dance
/æ/: last, trap, bath*
/ɑ/: father, bother, lot, pasta, lost, gone, wrong, daughter, law**
/o/: lore

---
*Closer to [a] than to [ɛ], some speakers have [a]
**Some people have a more central realization [ä]


pasta is

1.['pästä] in Italian
2. /'pæstɐ/ in RP, but frequently pronounced as ['pastɐ]
3. /'pæstɐ/ in Canada, but frequently pronounced as ['pastɐ] (CVS)
4. /'pɑstɐ/ in G.A., but frequently pronounced as ['pästɐ]
5. /'pɑstɐ/ in NCVS region, but frequently pronounced as ['pastɐ]

I've never heard it with the rounded vowel p[ɒ]sta in California,
and I'm not familiar with Bostonian & Pittsburghese variants...
Kendra   Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:22 am GMT
BTW, [hɑːt] (''hot'') means ''hate'' in Swedish and Norwegian.

I don't know why some American dictionaries think
AH in Utah should be [ɒ] rather than [ɑ].

Utah should rhyme with spa...