German is an easy language. it's much more logical than English and many Romance languages. Clichés never die! English is probably one the most difficult languages ever....except morphology, of course.
Chinese intonation
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I just asked this question while I was thinking of the differences between Chinese and Japanese, differences in the way they sound. I don't know either or them though.
Japanese sounds more harsh, mechanic, like it's spoken by a ninja, but they seem to have a more flexible intonation, which means I think they can convey emotions like in western languages.
Chinese sounds more musical, smoother, but they don't seem to have a flexible intonation like in western languages, which means I think it's too static and isn't a good language for acting, singing, or anything that conveys emotions.
Japanese pronunciation is pretty easy, while Chinese pronunciation seems much harder to learn, although not too hard or impossible (Just a guess, as I said I'm not learning either language).
Japanese sounds more harsh, mechanic, like it's spoken by a ninja, but they seem to have a more flexible intonation, which means I think they can convey emotions like in western languages.
Chinese sounds more musical, smoother, but they don't seem to have a flexible intonation like in western languages, which means I think it's too static and isn't a good language for acting, singing, or anything that conveys emotions.
Japanese pronunciation is pretty easy, while Chinese pronunciation seems much harder to learn, although not too hard or impossible (Just a guess, as I said I'm not learning either language).
>>hong kong singers usually sing their songs in cantonese pronunciation, but it seems like the lyrics are written in mandarin, if it were written in cantonese, those songs wouldn't be sung that way, that's to say, cantonese lyrics use mandarin (literary?) form and cantonese pronunciation<<
YES，you're right. There is no cantonese written form. Any cantonese written form that appeard in Internet or songs or films are illegally fabricated. China mainland has one and only one written form that is simple chinese. Hong kong and Taiwan and Macau use traditional chinese. Their pronounciation is almost same，1% differs.
>>A question for Xie or other Chinese speakers.
According to a webpage for Anglos, the most difficult major languages are Mandarin, Japanese and Korean. In your opinion, which are the most difficult? <<
Mandarin is easy since I'm a mainland Chinese. LOL
I can't use a sentence to express the difficulties and easiness of these three language. From difficult to easy，I think
in written form, Mandarin>Japanese>Korean
in pronunciation，Japanese=Korean>Mandarin
in grammar，Japanese>Korean=Mandarin
If one from East China such as Shanghai or other Wu-language region, Japanese<Korean in pronunciation. Because Japanese has a lot of Wu Yin（Wu pronunciation）.
YES，you're right. There is no cantonese written form. Any cantonese written form that appeard in Internet or songs or films are illegally fabricated. China mainland has one and only one written form that is simple chinese. Hong kong and Taiwan and Macau use traditional chinese. Their pronounciation is almost same，1% differs.
>>A question for Xie or other Chinese speakers.
According to a webpage for Anglos, the most difficult major languages are Mandarin, Japanese and Korean. In your opinion, which are the most difficult? <<
Mandarin is easy since I'm a mainland Chinese. LOL
I can't use a sentence to express the difficulties and easiness of these three language. From difficult to easy，I think
in written form, Mandarin>Japanese>Korean
in pronunciation，Japanese=Korean>Mandarin
in grammar，Japanese>Korean=Mandarin
If one from East China such as Shanghai or other Wu-language region, Japanese<Korean in pronunciation. Because Japanese has a lot of Wu Yin（Wu pronunciation）.
IMHO, from hardest to easiest (from the viewpoint of Europeans and Americans),
In written form, Mandarin > Japanese ≥ Korean,
In pronunciation, Mandarin ≥ Korean > Japanese,
In grammar, Korean ≈ Japanese > Mandarin.
In written form, Mandarin > Japanese ≥ Korean,
In pronunciation, Mandarin ≥ Korean > Japanese,
In grammar, Korean ≈ Japanese > Mandarin.
>>It is interesting your example. When you know English, the difficulty of German and Japanese are similar. So, I guess that the most difficult for you can be Arabic (neither European nor East Asian language).<<
Maybe a problem with motivation. But anyway, both Japanese and French don't stick to my head very well. Apart from the writing, Japanese is largely a brand-new language anyway, but thanks to cultural affinity, we should have far fewer problems in adapting to their culture.
But why French? French is just another brand-new language, so it sticks just as slowly as Japanese would to my head, slower than German which Germanic (English is).
>>I got somewhat frustrated when I read Arabic course books and learned to write Arabic script correctly. Maybe it's a nightmare for Chinese, Europeans, or Americans to learn Arabic as an important task.<<
More importantly, as I can recall, very few if at all Arab speakers have ever turned up in this forum. We have various nationals from the Anglosphere, much of Europe, and us Chinese and Korean fellows, but very few elsewhere.
>>Chinese sounds more musical, smoother, but they don't seem to have a flexible intonation like in western languages, which means I think it's too static and isn't a good language for acting, singing, or anything that conveys emotions.<<
I think cultural traits are more significant in conveying emotions. Chinese girls in general... don't talk as straightforward as some European/African-descent girls (some have an almost masculine style, I think), but also lack the kind of maturity the latter have/seem to. And many guys, me included, lack the masculine nature at large among European/African-descent guys.
In short, sometimes they don't appear that mature (along with the "baby face" - some guys are actually rather embarrassed well into their twenties... when white young women of this age already look old to us). But I say socializing intelligence (with much formality sometimes) is far more valued, so emotions don't matter that much.
But I must concur that I find it more fun to speak Mandarin instead where I can use a high pitch far more often.
>>YES，you're right. There is no cantonese written form. Any cantonese written form that appeard in Internet or songs or films are illegally fabricated.<<
DOWNRIGHT WRONG. Internet Cantonese is established spontaneously by us, me included, and I regard it a kind of liberal movement thanks to the internet. Even in Hong Kong before 1997, it was a usual practice to suppress written Cantonese in school compositions. This is UNPLEASANT. Check any scholarly journals published in Hong Kong, and you may see what scholars say about this kind of language. Completely legitimate, lively, popular, widely used every day.
Well, in fact, the government has since reformed the Chinese used in computers somehow to include Cantonese swear words. Ask any Hongkonger to teach you profanity, Cantonese-only words, etc, and you can learn to type them. Again, those are used every day.
Maybe a problem with motivation. But anyway, both Japanese and French don't stick to my head very well. Apart from the writing, Japanese is largely a brand-new language anyway, but thanks to cultural affinity, we should have far fewer problems in adapting to their culture.
But why French? French is just another brand-new language, so it sticks just as slowly as Japanese would to my head, slower than German which Germanic (English is).
>>I got somewhat frustrated when I read Arabic course books and learned to write Arabic script correctly. Maybe it's a nightmare for Chinese, Europeans, or Americans to learn Arabic as an important task.<<
More importantly, as I can recall, very few if at all Arab speakers have ever turned up in this forum. We have various nationals from the Anglosphere, much of Europe, and us Chinese and Korean fellows, but very few elsewhere.
>>Chinese sounds more musical, smoother, but they don't seem to have a flexible intonation like in western languages, which means I think it's too static and isn't a good language for acting, singing, or anything that conveys emotions.<<
I think cultural traits are more significant in conveying emotions. Chinese girls in general... don't talk as straightforward as some European/African-descent girls (some have an almost masculine style, I think), but also lack the kind of maturity the latter have/seem to. And many guys, me included, lack the masculine nature at large among European/African-descent guys.
In short, sometimes they don't appear that mature (along with the "baby face" - some guys are actually rather embarrassed well into their twenties... when white young women of this age already look old to us). But I say socializing intelligence (with much formality sometimes) is far more valued, so emotions don't matter that much.
But I must concur that I find it more fun to speak Mandarin instead where I can use a high pitch far more often.
>>YES，you're right. There is no cantonese written form. Any cantonese written form that appeard in Internet or songs or films are illegally fabricated.<<
DOWNRIGHT WRONG. Internet Cantonese is established spontaneously by us, me included, and I regard it a kind of liberal movement thanks to the internet. Even in Hong Kong before 1997, it was a usual practice to suppress written Cantonese in school compositions. This is UNPLEASANT. Check any scholarly journals published in Hong Kong, and you may see what scholars say about this kind of language. Completely legitimate, lively, popular, widely used every day.
Well, in fact, the government has since reformed the Chinese used in computers somehow to include Cantonese swear words. Ask any Hongkonger to teach you profanity, Cantonese-only words, etc, and you can learn to type them. Again, those are used every day.
Cantonese is just a bunch of slang and swear words. It is a very vulgar dialect.
>> Zhong Wen Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:44 pm GMT
Any cantonese written form that appeard in Internet or songs or films are illegally fabricated.
China mainland has one and only one written form that is simple chinese. Hong kong and Taiwan and Macau use traditional chinese. Their pronounciation is almost same，1% differs. <<
a. You can say that the Written Cantonese is not an Official Language in China. Any Cantonese written form that appeard in the internet or songs or films are not the Official Language.
b. You can say that the Written Mandarin is one and the only one Official Language in China and which adopts simplify Chinese character. The Taiwan, Hong kong and Macau also adopt Written Mandarin as Official Language, but using the traditional Chinese character. The Singapore and Malaysia also adopt Written Mandarin with simplify Chinese character.
Any cantonese written form that appeard in Internet or songs or films are illegally fabricated.
China mainland has one and only one written form that is simple chinese. Hong kong and Taiwan and Macau use traditional chinese. Their pronounciation is almost same，1% differs. <<
a. You can say that the Written Cantonese is not an Official Language in China. Any Cantonese written form that appeard in the internet or songs or films are not the Official Language.
b. You can say that the Written Mandarin is one and the only one Official Language in China and which adopts simplify Chinese character. The Taiwan, Hong kong and Macau also adopt Written Mandarin as Official Language, but using the traditional Chinese character. The Singapore and Malaysia also adopt Written Mandarin with simplify Chinese character.
<< Zhong Wen Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:44 pm GMT
YES，you're right. There is no cantonese written form. >>
Here is a song writing in Cantonese written form.
< Cönghõi Yätsënk Sîu >
Cönghõi yätsënk sîu, töw töw leóng-ngòn ciu
fawcamp coy lòng jĩ gêy gämpjïu
Cöngtïn sîu, fänt fänt sâyseòng ciu
soy fù soy sênkcöt Tïn jïhĩu
Göngsän sîu, yïnyeú yiu
towlòng tow jònt honkcant jòksây gẽydö gïu
Cënkfönk sîu gẽnk yé jèk-liu
howcenk wan sènklíu yätkämp mánjîu
Cönksänk sîu, bät jôi jèkliu
howcenk yenkjòi cï cï sîu sîu
lä...........
kök: Wong Jïm
ci: Wong Jïm
pïn: Gû Gä-fäy
Cantonese word list:
cönghõi 沧海
yätsënk 一声
sîu 笑
töw 滔
leóng-ngòn 两岸
ciu 潮
fawcamp 浮沉
coy 随
lòng 浪
jĩ 只
gêy 记
gämpjïu 今朝
Cöngtïn 苍天
fänt 纷
sâyseòng 世上
soy 谁
fù 负
sênkcöt 胜出
Tïn 天
jïhĩu 知晓
göngsän 江山
yïnyeú 烟雨
yiu 遥
towlòng 涛浪
tow 淘
jònt 尽
honkcant 红尘
jòksây 俗世
gẽydö 几多
gïu 娇
cënkfönk 清风
gẽnk 竟
yé 惹
jèkliu 寂寥
howcenk 豪情
wan 还
sènk 胜
líu 了
yätkämp 一襟
mánjîu 晚照
cönksänk 苍生
bät 不
jôi 再
yenkjòi 仍在
cï 痴
lä 啦
kök 曲
ci 词
pïn 编
Wong Jïm 黄霑
Gû Gä-fäy 顾家辉
(Cantonese Penkyamp and Character)
YES，you're right. There is no cantonese written form. >>
Here is a song writing in Cantonese written form.
< Cönghõi Yätsënk Sîu >
Cönghõi yätsënk sîu, töw töw leóng-ngòn ciu
fawcamp coy lòng jĩ gêy gämpjïu
Cöngtïn sîu, fänt fänt sâyseòng ciu
soy fù soy sênkcöt Tïn jïhĩu
Göngsän sîu, yïnyeú yiu
towlòng tow jònt honkcant jòksây gẽydö gïu
Cënkfönk sîu gẽnk yé jèk-liu
howcenk wan sènklíu yätkämp mánjîu
Cönksänk sîu, bät jôi jèkliu
howcenk yenkjòi cï cï sîu sîu
lä...........
kök: Wong Jïm
ci: Wong Jïm
pïn: Gû Gä-fäy
Cantonese word list:
cönghõi 沧海
yätsënk 一声
sîu 笑
töw 滔
leóng-ngòn 两岸
ciu 潮
fawcamp 浮沉
coy 随
lòng 浪
jĩ 只
gêy 记
gämpjïu 今朝
Cöngtïn 苍天
fänt 纷
sâyseòng 世上
soy 谁
fù 负
sênkcöt 胜出
Tïn 天
jïhĩu 知晓
göngsän 江山
yïnyeú 烟雨
yiu 遥
towlòng 涛浪
tow 淘
jònt 尽
honkcant 红尘
jòksây 俗世
gẽydö 几多
gïu 娇
cënkfönk 清风
gẽnk 竟
yé 惹
jèkliu 寂寥
howcenk 豪情
wan 还
sènk 胜
líu 了
yätkämp 一襟
mánjîu 晚照
cönksänk 苍生
bät 不
jôi 再
yenkjòi 仍在
cï 痴
lä 啦
kök 曲
ci 词
pïn 编
Wong Jïm 黄霑
Gû Gä-fäy 顾家辉
(Cantonese Penkyamp and Character)
<< Tionghoa Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:50 am GMT
IMHO, the most difficult Chinese dialect should be Minnanese (Taiwanese), >>
1. Mandarin = Chinese
2. Minnanese (Taiwanese) = Chinese dialect
The history of Mandarin has just 700 years.
The history of Minnanese (Taiwanese) has more than 2000 years.
Why Minnanese (Taiwanese) is a dialect of Chinese (Mandarin)?
IMHO, the most difficult Chinese dialect should be Minnanese (Taiwanese), >>
1. Mandarin = Chinese
2. Minnanese (Taiwanese) = Chinese dialect
The history of Mandarin has just 700 years.
The history of Minnanese (Taiwanese) has more than 2000 years.
Why Minnanese (Taiwanese) is a dialect of Chinese (Mandarin)?
>>>Why Minnanese (Taiwanese) is a dialect of Chinese (Mandarin)?<<<
Minnanese isn't a dialect of Mandarin, but no doubt it must be a dialect of Chinese language.
Minnanese isn't a dialect of Mandarin, but no doubt it must be a dialect of Chinese language.
"Tionghoa Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:54 am GMT
Minnanese isn't a dialect of Mandarin, but no doubt it must be a dialect of Chinese language."
A viewpoint which defined the Minnanese that must be a dialect of Chinese language. In popular concepts everybody knows the Minnanese that is a language of China or which is one of the Chinese languages. The Mandarin and Minnanese just have to borrow a same written language; the Literary Chinese before 1920s. It is as like as the English, Polish and Hungarian which borrowed the Written Latin as their written language in past time. In the western world, no anybody would say that English, Polish and Hungarian must be the dialects of Latin.
Minnanese isn't a dialect of Mandarin, but no doubt it must be a dialect of Chinese language."
A viewpoint which defined the Minnanese that must be a dialect of Chinese language. In popular concepts everybody knows the Minnanese that is a language of China or which is one of the Chinese languages. The Mandarin and Minnanese just have to borrow a same written language; the Literary Chinese before 1920s. It is as like as the English, Polish and Hungarian which borrowed the Written Latin as their written language in past time. In the western world, no anybody would say that English, Polish and Hungarian must be the dialects of Latin.
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