what foreign languages do Chinese and Japanese students lear

Xie   Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:57 am GMT
>>Xie, I think that you are wrong with French and Spanish.

These languages are very important and very spoken in a lot of countries. That is the reason to be both official or at least used in all the World organizations.<<

China knows that clearly, so French is still quite popular. But remember where this country is on the map. While it's true that the Chinese have a lot of commerce with England, Germany, and France in the EU, and Russia too outside of it, Spain is not so important, even less than the Netherlands are to us.

Unless both ex-Spanish/French colonies all become comparable to Spain and France themselves, I don't think they can take over German completely...

>>To Chinese posters: what is considered to be a major destination for Chinese emigrants? What country is the land of opportunity?

Also, I have heard that Chinese students aren't allowed to have sex with the locals of the countries in which they are studying under Chinese means. Is that true?! <<

Most Anglophone countries, the Netherlands... while Indonesia and Thailand etc are full of Chinese.

We have a cliché that the Japanese prostitution denies access of Chinese people (and other foreigners). If you know it, please check for us. In general, while we appreciate a lot of Japanese stuff, we also have the most hate speech, stereotypes, arguments, etc, with Japanese culture/people at large.

Elsewhere, some people just laugh at ethnic Chinese (the small genital legend, for example) or are envy about Chinese (like some Indonesians), but most of them don't even know just how industrious the Chinese are in, as they claim, taking over the economy. Some of us think that only some Europeans and Jews, and the Japanese, among others, can compete in this regard. The Chinese aren't interested in those childish accusations and they work. To beat the others.
Xie   Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:00 am GMT
Back in Germany, I came to realize that, the more I interacted with the others, the more Chinese I would actually think in. It's a paradox, but I'm convinced that business and power are far more important than childish discussions, fooling around, etc.

As some of us argue, when some Chinese struggle for power... well, as I can see in the economic realities elsewhere, they will become really something.
Tionghoa   Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:17 am GMT
Mr Xie (謝),

What do you think about Italy and its economy?
Would you like to learn Italian if you were not busy?
445454   Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:45 am GMT
Chinese people are crazy in learning minor foreign languages, not English because English is not popular there for employment . Many graduates who majored in English are unemployeed, so they stop learning English now.


英语热"退烧小语种有大市场

http://www.0416jj.com/News_View.asp?NewsId=272
445454   Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:49 am GMT
So, English is in decline in China.
US user   Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:32 pm GMT
2Unless both ex-Spanish/French colonies all become comparable to Spain and France themselves, I don't think they can take over German completely..."

According to the Steinke Sprachenindex (German index), the most important economic languages, considering all the ex-colonies are:

1. English
2. Chinese
3. Japanese
4. Spanish
5. German
6. French

http://www.steinke-institut.de/sprachenundwirtschaft.htm
Xie   Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:26 am GMT
>>What do you think about Italy and its economy?
Would you like to learn Italian if you were not busy? <<

It's hard to be accurate. But there are one fact that let me save my time for other language, namely that Italy has a lot of foreign debts. Spain on the other hand isn't even one of the G8. If you escape from popular languages for some even more practical reasons, they could make, however, good choices for us Chinese.
bam-gu   Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:33 am GMT
I am from Taiwan and working for my government. In daily life, I need to use Mandarin and Hokkien only. That's enough. But I love Japanese anime such as "Crayon Shin-Chan" and that's the factor for me to learn Japanese. English? Well, English is not useful in Taiwan. The number of English speaking tourists is in decline in Taiwan, but the tourists from both China and Japan are many in Taiwan. So, English seems useless in Taiwan.
Xie   Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:39 am GMT
>>According to the Steinke Sprachenindex (German index), the most important economic languages, considering all the ex-colonies are: <<

I'm rather against the problematic mentality behind the Spanish fad (and Chinese).

>>1. English
2. Chinese
3. Japanese
4. Spanish
5. German
6. French <<

One language already takes you years to master, even if you are Anglophone and you take German/French instead of Chinese. If you go for a European route like me, you'd shy away from Japanese indefinitely. Down the list, the web page shows German will supposedly remain the 5th even in 2025. For me, German and Japanese are quite similar as long as their economies and population go.

French and Spanish, of course, their native AND second lang. speakers outnumber those of German and Japanese by far even now. However, I don't learn French in order to visit Quebec and West Africa. I don't think a lot of learners actually care about the French beyond the European(-descent) speakers. By the same logic, even though Spanish is now spoken in over 20 countries, as long as it isn't relevant to my own economic and academic interest, there's no motivation at all... unless I believe in the fad.

I know China better than many here. So, what about Chinese? Although by total figures China now beats Germany (like GDP) and in a few years Japan as well, for us Chinese GDP per capita (and the like, per capita figures) is far more important. See? China has ever more money than before, but still we have millions of really poor peasants and minority groups and so on. It's silly to trust total figures, such as just how many people speak/learn French/Spanish natively, and yet disregard per capita figures, and the reality of all those countries.

And even if you consider the countries themselves as travelling destinations only, it's still problematic. Many Hong Kong Chinese are keen travellers, but I've never ever heard of anyone going to West Africa, except the Sahara which is a scenic spot itself.
38   Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:49 am GMT
It seems that in Asian countries, everybody keeps saying that English is very important and agrees that they should study English, but not many of them managed to reach even a passable level of English fluency. Just imagine all the time, money and effort wasted......
Xie   Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:57 am GMT
At present, at my university,

1) Japanese is just as popular as before, I have no figures
2) the big three, French and German and Spanish, more students are taking them too. There used to be 3 classes for all of them.

Now, German still has 3 classes. It's like 30 students allowed per class, and almost full, and it's a few students more than 2 years ago.

But in French and Spanish, there are already 5 classes, and there are more courses in their majors.

Yes, it's true. I surely see French as a very good choice in Europe - economic influence, international status, population, as well as similar studying opportunities that you can find in Germany. However, the cultural stereotype about Francophone isn't completely wrong. Both some Germans and French have sth against me anyway, but I found it more pleasant to be in Germany as a traveler and student. I'm not sure about being a student.

But again, where is Spain? I don't see Spain anywhere in education. If you want to become an expert in Hispanic studies, surely it's good. But it's just the same for Russian/Swedish/Dutch/Polish/Hungarian... you name them. I do see ads about Spanish universities, but then, other than purely going for exchange (I could also have been to Finland; everybody knows Finland is very small compared to many others), I don't see anything terribly attractive.

Our life is short. Even if I will still learn Spanish anyway, I'd prefer doing it much later in my life. For studying purposes themselves, most of us would just settle for English (no.1), followed by Chinese (a cheap choice for Hongkongers), and then French and German and Japanese.

That's why I say Spanish is a fad. The more students it has in Hong Kong, the worse it becomes. Spain and Mexico, for example, won't suddenly expand a lot in education and technology and sciences and living standard and so on.... and won't suddenly offer hundreds of thousands of scholarships, studentships, and so on, for, say, the Chinese guys. The fad would be rather positive however for the Brits and Germans. They are EU citizens after all and they can go and travel freely in Spain. So, in short, what is true for Brits/Americans/Germans about Spanish may not be true for us Chinese in China.
Tionghoa   Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:28 am GMT
<<<Spain on the other hand isn't even one of the G8. >>>

Yes, it's really a pity, maybe Spanish will be one of the G10.
Tionghoa   Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:08 am GMT
To Mr 謝

Would you please put aside America & Africa, and make a comment on the utility of Italian and Spanish from Europeans' & Asians' perspective. Personally I found your opinion helpful for me to choose the 4th foreign language. 唔該晒!
Tionghoa   Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:17 am GMT
In fact, what I'd like to know is, which of the 2 (Italian & Spanish) is more important or helpful in Europe and Asia (not global review). Thanks!
Xie   Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:41 am GMT
>>Would you please put aside America & Africa, and make a comment on the utility of Italian and Spanish from Europeans' & Asians' perspective. Personally I found your opinion helpful for me to choose the 4th foreign language. 唔該晒! <<

I was actually putting the perspective of some mainland guys about Italian and Spanish. Some of the fans of them said, to avoid competition of German and French, these 2 would make good choices, and they also said they are more or less just as good. While Spanish has a larger geographical spread... Italy is a bigger country with "more" music and art stuff.

I asked some Francophones and they said, as I could prove a bit in France as a traveler, that Spanish is the second most popular in France, followed by German. Maybe Spain is close enough to France for linguistic and geographical reasons? This isn't quite true though for Italian. Overall, Spanish is more popular among the Francophones, Germans, Chinese...

But ultimately figures don't always rule. Both French and German are more attractive to me since they're the biggest in the EU (along with English of course) and they offer far more than the others there, although Spanish outnumber them in terms of speakers, learners (well, pretty close to that soon)...