Supermemo method doesn't work for me

I am going to implement a new method to improve my English, a personalized one based on my experience. It'll probably be a simple list of words in a text file that I check regularly, or something as simple as that.

The thing is, programs like supermemo, spaced repetition software, don't work for me. I used Mnemosyne. It turns out to be very ineffective. Why? I don't know, and I would like to know your opinion. Did anyone give up using spaced repetition software? In your opinion, why hasn't it worked well for me?

I have tried to think of an explanation, but it's hard to tell what exactly did not work. This is the best explanation I have for now:

The software is supposed to show you the word at the "right" time. That has never happened. There were words that I kept forgetting every single time, and others that I always remembered easily no matter how much time it'd passed. This is because there are words that you can "understand" much more easily, because you have more neural connections for such words (maybe you know synonyms, or related words or contexts), and other words that never seem to get into your head (maybe you don't have enough "neural links" to that word). So each word is different, and then... you might well come across those words outside your spaced repetition software (if you read, for example), which means you get an irregular exposure that your software can't take into account. The amount of time needed to have enough "neural connections" varies from word to word, and according to the amount of exposure and "elaboration" you have experienced.

So the problem is the software is expected to regulate a process that is intrinsically irregular, and this is not possible, at least in my case.

That's why I'm going to try using a simple dynamic list, maybe contextualized (ex: related words together), so I will be able to go through the list very quickly. My instinct will guide me, and I'll spend more time on the words that sound more obscure, and just take a quick glance at the ones I know a little better. Everything will be instinctive, irregular, and fast, I hope.

Comments?

Bump.
In case someone feels like talking about learning instead of discussing polygamy, Iraq, French and Spanish, or genital organs.

Hi Johnny

I'm learning English using Mnemosyne too.

Do you use example sentences (as described in Antimoon) or simply word-definition in your flash cards?

You should not consider supermemo be all and end all. It should be used as a supplement for your whole learning process which involves reading, listening, speaking and writing. I used to add 7 or 8 example sentences for each word. Seeing and understanding a word in different context helps to retain one's word. Adding many example sentences solve that problem on its own. You should not worry about whether you remember one word better or other times don't. You will get better at remembering it as you get exposure to it many times as it is scheduled by your software.

You used many advanced words in your above post that indicates that you're English is quite advanced and you are on your way to reach fluency.

I'm using Mnemosyne too, so maybe I could help, but honestly, you didn't provide any useful information. For a start, how do your flash cards look? Where do you get them from?

Here is one example, one flash card I have in Mnemosyne:

Question:
jeopardize (verb)

Answer:
/phonetic transcription here/
to risk losing or spoiling something important by putting it in danger (= endanger) - Ex: He would never do anything to jeopardize his career.

I see the word (question) and I have to remember what it means (answer). Then I have to decide how to rate my guess, between 1 and 5. The thing is, it's often very difficult and useless to remember a definition "exactly", and anyway it's difficult to decide how to rate the guess. Software like this is good for learning stuff by heart, I believe, and that's NOT how someone should learn a language naturally. This method often works well with basic vocabulary (house, dog, etc. - All stuff that you either know or you don't) but not with other kinds of knowledge.
I am thinking that maybe I should write the examples and the pronunciation in the question, and only the definition in the answer, because it'd be easier that way, and after all we all see words in context, not alone.
But for some reason I still don't trust the algorithm... and the method. It's still hard to decide what score to assign to the answer.

That's why I feel a simple list might be much better (or more than one list, where each list has at least 200 words). I can go through a lot of words in a list very quickly, only spend time on the ones I feel unsure about the most, quickly review the ones I already know too, and delete the ones whose meanings have become obvious. The list will probably made up of words and examples, and maybe there will be no definition (if needed, I can just double click on a word and check the dictionary pop-up). No guessing is mandatory, just reading and skimming through the list.

I guess I was right. The Supermemo method works well when the information is treated in a certain way. It looks like the only efficient way to learn vocabulary with Supermemo is to write the definitions as questions, and the words as the answers. If you do it the other way around, like I did, it's just too much information to recall, and it's going to be ineffective.
Source:
http://www.supermemo.com/articles/20rules.htm

But if the questions are going to be the definitions, isn't that going to be ambiguous too? For each simple definition, you can think of the answer, but you can think of all its synonyms too.

Now I'm almost convinced that flash cards are not good for learning languages, unless you want to use flash cards that just consist of pairs such as "word to learn / word in your native language", which I disapprove of.

I'll give my method a try. Lists of words, each used in one or two examples, which will provide the exposition I need. Exposition is what is needed, there's no need to recall anything or answer questions.

Your approach is stlll wrong. Putting definitions as questions will make you confused in gusseing them correctly. Why not go for "example sentences" approach. All you hvae to do is to understand the word in context and grade yourself. It's easy peasy and it takes less time to make them as you copy and paste them from online resources or online dictionaries.

The approach I usually use is to translate an entire sentence from English (my native language) into my target language. If you use a program like Anki, it can automatically create both cards for you: native language to target language. This method has worked very well for me, both for languages that I'm advanced in (such as Spanish) and ones I'm not so advanced in (such as Italian and Latin).

I'm using this technique with Japanese, too, except my process is a little more complicated and often involves three cards: English to kana, kana to kanji, and kanji to English. So far it doesn't work too badly, but I find that it's MUCH harder to remember Japanese words than Spanish words this way.

- Kef

Kef,

How's your progress in Japanese? Are you into the second book or third by Heisig yet? I have the third book as a reference but rarely use it.

I'm glad you're back. I think you give clear explanations to ESL learners here.

I've been reading more on this, especially on the Supermemo website. I think I've been using the method in a non-optimal way, and so it became ineffective. I need to optimize it for improving vocabulary, which in my opinion just means getting a bit familiar with those words you don't know at all.

But I think there is one problem: Mnemosyne seems to wait too much before it shows me a word again. I really feel I need to see each card more often. It might be because its algorithm is a bit weird, or because I rate the cards wrongly, or for some other reason.

I saw that another program, Anki, also tells you how long it is until you see a specific card again. (Example: 1=6 hours, 2=1 day, etc.) Maybe that would be more useful, because you have some idea how to rate a card. Has anyone tried Anki?

I'll go on reading on this and experimenting. Hopefully I'll soon find the optimum approach to improving vocabulary.

K. T.:

<< How's your progress in Japanese? Are you into the second book or third by Heisig yet? I have the third book as a reference but rarely use it.
here. >>

My studies are progressing well. A bit frustratingly slow, and I definitely have trouble memorizing new vocabulary, but once I do have it memorized, it tends to stick pretty well. The overall feeling is like this: the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step, right? Well, I feel like I've taken 10,000 steps. That sounds like good progress, until you realize that's only four miles. :)

I haven't bought RTK2 or 3 and I don't currently have plans to. Moreover, with the assistance of tools such as the EDICT dictionary, I think it would be easy enough to apply the RTK2 method or something like it without actually buying the book.

I did complete RTK1 about a year ago, though, and I've definitely found it helpful. I just wish I'd realized how useful kanji.koohii.com is sooner -- I didn't start using it until I was on kanji #1827...


<< I'm glad you're back. I think you give clear explanations to ESL learners here. >>

Nah, I'm just dropping in. I probably won't be a regular around here until the problems get fixed. But, unfortunately, these are problems that the administrators seem to have no interest in fixing.

Did we ever find out what the heck the deal with the German threads was? I still think that whole fiasco was a slap in the face to all of us, especially when even Josh Lalonde, as moderator, couldn't keep the situation under control.


Johnny:

<< I saw that another program, Anki, also tells you how long it is until you see a specific card again. (Example: 1=6 hours, 2=1 day, etc.) Maybe that would be more useful, because you have some idea how to rate a card. Has anyone tried Anki? >>

Anki works great for me. I haven't used Mnemosyne enough to comment on it. I'd avoid SuperMemo like the plague... not because it's bad at helping you memorize (it's not), but because it has the worst user interface of any program I have used in my life. Furthermore, the creators seem to have deluded themselves into thinking that their user interface from hell is actually a good thing. I'd offer to help them fix the problem, except they would probably just ask, "What problem?"

- Kef

Yes, I'm going to try Anki. It seems exactly what I need. Mnemosyne is not customizable, and the shorter interval is one day (I think having the possibility of reviewing difficult new stuff after minutes or hours is much more efficient).
I'm so glad I found Anki! Now hopefully I'll be able to learn "effectively" and improve my English exponentially.

<<the shorter interval is one day>>

Shortest!!! :(

Kef,

Yes, Japanese is a long journey-a lifelong journey. I'll have to look at the site you mentioned. It sounds interesting.

I don't know what happened with the German threads, but there has been at least one or two threads in the last year which didn't get the ax.

We don't know what Tom or the moderators know about the identity of the trolls. I hope that they deleted the German threads because of the troll problems, not because of prejudice toward German as a language.