Does language control our thinking?

Bluemoon   Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:43 am GMT
* My thread has been disappeared, so I'm posting it again!! *
<Speakers of different languages not only describe the world differently - they think about it differently too, according to the study. Dr Sotaro Kita of the University of Bristol's Department of Experimental Psychology, showed the cartoon to a group of native English, Japanese and Turkish speakers. He then noted their gestures as they described the action they had seen, finding that speakers of different languages used different gestures to depict the same event. This appeared to reflect the way the structure of their languages expressed that event. For example, when describing a scene where Sylvester swings on a rope, the English speakers used gestures showing an arc. The Japanese and Turkish speakers tended to use straight gestures showing the motion but not the arc. Dr Kita suggests this is because Japanese and Turkish have no verb that corresponds to the English intransitive verb 'to swing'.>

What do you think about this experiment?
Do you agree that one's native language control his or her thinking?
If you do, why do you think so?
Does anyone challenge this argument/research?
Martina   Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:41 am GMT
I think it may be true to some extent. I usually think in words partly, but also in images and "unformed thoughts". Sometimes I would think in English, although it's not my native language, since the meanings of words in another language are not so "blurred" for me by everyday and sometimes very figural use. I certainly think faster this way, since I don't have to waste my attention on possible double meanings and plays at words. But for complicated matters, there are pictures and my native language. Just a difference between a language I know and a language I've grown with
Loner   Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:05 pm GMT
I seem to remember, a long time ago, language and color studies, which found difficulty in discrimination between colors in cultures lacking words for certain colors. Some languages are very limited in color vocabulary. There are languages that use the same word for blue things and green things.
Xie   Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:41 pm GMT
>>Sylvester swings on a rope

Does it mean that this guy is moving back and forth on a rope... like when he's climbing a hill?

If so, I would use either hand and show the motion as if it were a pendulum. And I say he's "shaking" on a rope. We have only one verb, to shake.

Indeed, there are also a lot of vocab that don't find their equivalents or even anything close in Chinese. We have a few words for blue, green, and in between, but in general people aren't very sensitive about colors. By the same token, many Chinese can't tell that Nicole Kidman is in fact a redhead, but a blonde.

In general, I think English has more words than my native Chinese, except in Chinese poetry, cultural references (but this is always language specific and very idiomatic), etc. I also find it more difficult to use more accurate Chinese words in academic context. For one thing, I've almost never written in Chinese for such purposes. Second, Chinese still keeps on borrowing English words and comes up with its own translations, rather than creating new vocab for other countries. Most of them are not enough widespread in the layman discourse, so at least Chinese has a smaller academic vocab base... like in linguistics, I don't normally read Chinese, and not even the Chinese language is itself well documented in itself.
color deaf   Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:41 pm GMT
Even when you have lots of words for colors, can most of us really pick the right word for these colors (from a stamp catalog):

- ultramarine
- violet
- magenta
- claret
- carmine
- lake
- olive
- plum
- buff
- vermillion
- rose
- scarlet
- indigo
- chocolate
- lilac
- salmon
- crimson
- sage green
- rose carmine
- violet carmine
- carmine vermillion
- scarlet vermillion
- reddish vermillion
- crimson lake
- carmine lake
Franco.   Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:36 pm GMT
Even when you have lots of words for colors, can most of us really pick the right word for these colors (from a stamp catalog):


It depends. Women can.
ch   Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:31 pm GMT
I think language channels our thoughts rather than controls them. It offers a path of lower resistance, but that doesn't mean we can't venture beyond them.
montpellier teacher   Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:32 am GMT
Duh...it's you wot controls your thoughts. What a question! language is just the labels we put on our thoughts, you don't need to know the word 'orange' to see the colour between red and yellow do you? if you learn the word 'sexy', will that make you feel sexy?, of course not.

We create language according to functional requirements not the the other way round.
V   Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:11 pm GMT
I believe it will depend on your sense of awareness.. A child awareness on his/ her surroundings will be limited by language and the need to understand and express that perception. For an adult language actually becomes a limitation of awareness since we learn to feel new things that at some point language seem not to be able to express in detail.
Vitja   Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:28 pm GMT
Well i realized the last statement didn't make any sense.. and then again. language seemed to limit my quick train of thought.. but thinking over a gain and using the limitations of language to put this in an understanding perspective i rearranged my thoughts.. so I will restate my hypothesis:

I believe it will depend on your sense of awareness. When children become aware of their surroundings they will have a need and use a way to communicate that understanding and express that perception. Language becomes a conductor for your growing thoughts and spatial awareness. As adults grow, many become aware that language actually may be a sort of limitation since we perceive and feel new things in an abstract and physical sense and make new connections to reality that language seem not to, in many instances, be able to successfully express in detail.

Hope this little experiment made sense..
V.
Antimooner K. T.   Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:18 pm GMT
Maybe our thinking controls our language. In societies where there is a need to designate kinds of bamboo, there are many words for "bamboo".
In societies where there is a need to distinguish between levels of society, you have may have many levels of politeness.

In Japanese, there are four levels of politeness.
insolent   Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:41 pm GMT
<<In societies where there is a need to designate kinds of bamboo, there are many words for "bamboo". >>


I hate this argument, it's the same as the Inuit snow argument. In no way is someone who doesn't speak that language not capable of comprehending the difference between the types of bamboo. Take samples of the bamboo to an English speaker and say:

This is bamboo type 1. This is bamboo type 2. This is bamboo type 3....


Now the English speaker knows the difference and can distinguish between them and has a name for them, just like the speaker of the bamboo language. So language doesn't limit his thinking any more!
Antimooner K. T.   Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:37 pm GMT
Did I say that anyone was limited by his language in my post? No, I didn't. I think that thought was there with the first human, along with language. Man and woman kept adding words as they needed them.

Some cultures don't need as many words. If a person leaves his or her culture, s/he may need more words. This is applicable to people in industrial as well as agrarian groups. Say a doctor, a linguist or a missionary goes to a group in Papua New Guinea. Don't you think he has to learn some new words for new concepts?

I haven't been in that situation, but I've thought about it. I would bet that Albert Schweitzer had to learn some new words and he was no dummy.