A riddle for connoisseurs.

Hi,

I wonder if you could help me find out what exactly reveals the article was not written by a native speaker of English (apart from his Russian name). It must have been translated into English.
There seem to be no errors, but I feel it in the style and syntax. I can’t pinpoint the jarring notes, though. Can you?
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/ukraines-high-stakes/388108.html
Here’s an excerpt:
<By contrast, Tymoshenko’s election campaign is very creative, somewhat clever and modern. The campaign focuses on a larger-than-life figure who is referred to simply as “She,” but whom everybody understands to be the one-and-only “iron lady” of Ukrainian politics. “She” alone works, while her opponents just twiddle their thumbs. “She” takes concrete actions while her critics blow hot air. “She” is fighting the economic crisis, while others make irresponsible promises. And so on. It is easy to predict that the campaign will end with a slogan along the lines of: “Ukraine needs only her.” But Tymoshenko’s opponents can at any moment flip the slogan to read, “Vote for anyone but her!”
As paradoxical as it might seem, many of the same people who during the Orange Revolution five years ago stood for days in downtown Kiev, protesting the falsified election results favoring Yanukovych and called for the new, fair elections today, see a January victory for Yanukovych as the best and last chance to stop Tymoshenko from achieving absolute control over the country. Many people who are personally acquainted with Tymoshenko are convinced that if she wins the elections, she will try to establish an authoritarian regime along the lines of the one built by Vladimir Putin. >

Thanks.

I'm a native Russian speaker and I speak English fluently.

The article is well-written. The author was clear and articulate. I'd say that either Kiselyov was a very good student of English, or he hired a very good student to edit his essay for him.

The transitions "although, moreover, as paradoxical as it might seem" sound like something copied from textbook examples... The language is impeccable, but it's not subtle like it would be in the text of a good American or British writer.

H, is Russian your native language too? It seems so from your text... :)

<<As paradoxical as it might seem, many of the same people who during the Orange Revolution five years ago stood for days in downtown Kiev, protesting the falsified election results favoring Yanukovych and called for the new, fair elections today, see a January victory for Yanukovych as the best and last chance to stop Tymoshenko from achieving absolute control over the country.>>

This sentence seems overly complex to me (but correct, as far as I can tell). The verb "see" seemed to pop up out of nowhere, when I first read it. I had to go back and reparse the sentence before I could match it up the subject.

That's because your a simpleton, simpleton. Read the New Yorker or the Economist.

YES, journalists are advised to keep it as simple as possible without dumbing it down, but not everyone does that.

[Chorus]
We got 'em goin down for the count, lookin at the ground
That's why we got haters, that's why we got haters
Haters everywhere we go, haters everywhere we go
Haters everywhere we go, where we go
Haters goin down for the count (ONE) lookin at the ground (TWO)
I think you're a hater, I think you're a hater
Haters everywhere we go, haters everywhere we go
Haters everywhere we go, where we go, haters goin down for the count

[Verse 1: B.O.B.]
Yes sir it's the beast from Decatur
Cain't see enemies and the haters
Real sharp on my thing like a razor
Blade, come clean like a shape up
So guess I got a game of tape up
But e'rybody gonnaa feel the need to say sum'n
But can't speak up whenever you face 'em
Thats what I call microphone gangsters
Yea I got 'em okie-doke, teah I'm raw you know my flow
Cause B.O.B. be actin hard like a Viagra overdose
Talkin that noise on all them songs
A buncha lil' boys but you all look grown
Those niggaz there and these niggaz here
It really don't matta cause they all just clones
Go to school, read a book, be a lawyer
Hell yeah man I'm all for the cause
Ain't tryin to get involved with the law sir
But a nigga will get caught with the Mausberg
And that just ain't a threat on the song
Don't get it wrong cause this track is my own
Cause niggaz that slip they don't last long


[Chorus]

[Verse 2: Wes Fif]
Hey - what the heck, breathe homie, me I'm doin what I always do
Grindin if you wasn't steady hatin you'd be ballin too
I know you see us fallin through, all the rich niggaz is on my crew
Fuck it, they can't touch us, if stuck up is what you call it cool
Ooh~! You shoulda seen when I came down in that
Black on black, custom gator, haters face down on the mat
Splat! Yeah I can make a green nigga mad
Quick, fast, flash like ten cash on his bitch ass

[B.O.B.]
You can tell I'm a G by the walk and the stance
How I play the game make 'em talk in the stands
Watch how you talk when you talk to the man
If it ain't about bread you can talk to the hand
I, I, show you how to get rich
You got a weak arm I'll show you how to pitch
Made it so play I'll show you how to hit
And tell the police I don't know about shit
Ay guy, I'm fly, somethin like the air
Ain't that somethin when it's stuntin man there's nothin like air
Homey hold it right there, homeboy hold it down
Spent five at the mall and had the haters goin dowwwn

[Chorus]
lyrics from ALLYRICS.NET

Dear H

Ukraine’s High Stakes

I have had a quick look at the article.


I found the article a little bit difficult to read. The main reason is that I am unfamiliar with the subject matter. Also, regular readers of a particular newspaper or columnist get used to a particular style. When I read a different newspaper it takes me a little while to feel at home with the style of that newspaper. More so, if it is an American newspaper rather than a British newspaper.

I do not think there is anything wrong with the way that the article is written.

The article is written in American English or at least with an American English spell checker.




'kicked off': British English

favor: American English

favour: British English

a serious criminal offense: American English

offence: British English

rumors: American English

rumours: British English


Bye for now

P.S. You can understand if I no longer take an interest in Antimoon.

Just read the article, and I would never guess that the writer's first language is not English.

And just a quick FYI, "Kicked off" is in wide usage in America.

………………_„-,-~''~''':::'':::':::::''::::''~-,~„
…………._,-'':::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::''-„
………..,-'::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::|
………,-'::::::::::::„:„„-~-~--'~-'~--~-~--~--~„:,'
……..,'::::::::::,~'': : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : '-|
……..|::::::::,-': : : : : : : : - -~''''¯¯''-„: : : : : :\
……..|::::::::|: : : : : : : : : _„„--~'''''~-„: : : : : '|
……..'|:::::::,': : : : : : :_„„-: : : : : : : : ~--„_: |'
………|::::::|: : : „--~~'''~~''''''''-„…_..„~''''''''''''¯¯|¯",
………|:::::,':_„„-|: : :_„---~: : |''¯¯''''|: ~---„_: |¯¯|
……..,~-,_/'': : : |: : (_ o__): : |: : : : |:(_o__): \.. |
……../,'-,: : : : : ''-,_______,-'': : : : ''-„______\-'
……..\: : : : : : : : : : : : : : :„: : : : :-,: : : : : :\
………',:': : : : : : : : : : : : :,-'__: : : :_',: : : : ,'
……….'-,-': : : : : :___„-: : :'': : ¯''~~'': ': : ~-- |'
………….|: ,: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : |
………….'|: \: : : : : : : : -,„_„„-~~--~--„_: : : |
…………..|: \: : : : : : : : : : : :-------~: : : : : |
…………..|: :''-,: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :
…………..',: : :''-, : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : ,'
……………| : : : : : : : : :_ : : : : : : : : : : ,-'
……………|: : : : : : : : : : '''~----------~'': :,'
…………._|: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :
……….„-''.. '-,_: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : ,'
……,-''. . . . . '''~-„_: : : : : : : : : : : : :,-'''-„

I don't think you can claim it wasn't written by a native speaker. There's just no proof either way. Yes, it may sound awkward, but plenty of native speakers are bad at writing. Besides, the Moscow Times is not exactly the New York Times, I doubt their standard of English is on the same level. Those English versions of foreign papers are often like that. Maybe you just were used to seeing more crafted journalistic writing. At worst, it could just as likely be down to personal idiosyncrasies as foreignness.

< the Moscow Times is not exactly the New York Times, I doubt their standard of English is on the same level.>
They wish it were, I guess.

< H, is Russian your native language too? It seems so from your text... :)>
You bet, Answer. And that’s just the point I’m making: one can’t help being influenced by his native language.
I picked random articles and I can see through their non-Englishness, but I’m unable to define what makes it. I hoped some men of letters would tell me. (Damian in Edinburgh is a journalist, isn’t he?)
I am not interested in finding errors. I want something in line with this:

< In a paper published in 1929 Sapir tells us:
…We see and hear and otherwise experience very largely as we do because the language habits of our community predispose certain choices of interpretation .
… the world is presented in a kaleidoscopic flux of impressions which has to be organized by our minds--and this means largely by the linguistic systems in our minds .
…no individual is free to describe nature with absolute impartiality but is constrained to certain modes of interpretation even while he thinks himself most free .>

Quite a challenge, isn’t it?

It's the first sentence. :) Everything else is flawless, but in the quote you offered, the word order is unusual enough to stand out. In other words, it's a matter of style, not grammar.

A native speaker would build importance from "modern", to "somewhat clever" and then "very creative". It's a convention of the English language that we use groups of three for emphasis, but having "modern" as the last word disrupts the flow of the sentence because it stands alone. (This is not something we do conciously; I'm only aware of the unconcious rule because it was pointed out in a Rhetoric class.)


A native speaker would probably phrase it like this ;

"By contrast, Tymoshenko’s election campaign is modern, somewhat clever, and very creative."

No, that's not proof of anything. Seriously, I know how bad native speakers can write, I mark the essays of first year students all the time and I often can't even understand them. That article would have gotten an A+++.

to yeeyyeye
First year students ! It's a big time newspaper, man.

Fluent Canadian,

That very sentence jarred on my ear too; you've analized it perfectly.
<In other words, it's a matter of style, not grammar.>
No, not grammar.
I have to reiterate: I'm searching for those evasive things that constitute the difference in rendering large chunks of ideas and opinions in English and Russian. Perhaps too tall an order for my mediocre wits. But I'm curious! The question has been haunting me for quite a while.

To me, it's pretty obvious the article was _translated_, from Russian.
I'm going to find something on the subject in British and American media and make comparisons.

< I'm searching for those evasive things>
A doubt: “elusive” might have been better than “evasive” in my previous post.

No, it wasn't translated. The writer was just thinking in Russian, even if he was doing it in English. You know what I mean?

And don't do the "_whatever_" to put emphasis on a word. That's silly.