<<At least western culture put a high emphasis on individual liberty and privacy >>
Unless you were a slave.
Unless you were a slave.
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I'd rather have inequality than live in a society where all are equally poor and live in misery. They can always emphasize the chance to climb in the social ladder to make the society better.
No thanks to a society where human beings are like ants in a colony, which is a soulless society in western standards. There's nothing wrong with order mind you, but should eradicate the individual. If you surpress that too much the ingeniosity also suffers IMO.
No thanks to a society where human beings are like ants in a colony, which is a soulless society in western standards. There's nothing wrong with order mind you, but should eradicate the individual. If you surpress that too much the ingeniosity also suffers IMO.
" All what's in their mind is to take over the entire world, impose their culture, and eventually enslave other people once their culture is imposed on non-chinese. "
It is not what the Chinese do. But the USA yes. They even do war to impose their culture, companies and "values" (values that generally are limited to the liberty for economic domination of US based companies in the rest of the world)
" I prefer the western culture that emphasizes and put a high value on personal accomplishments. "
this might be more true in Protestant-based cultures. In catholic-based cultures the ideal of social and collective accomplishments is traditionally stronger than the individualistic visions from US and northern European cultures (until the "americanisation" of the society in the 60's). In my country it is traditionally more valuated to work for the others than to work for yourself only, being showing your individualistic economic accomplishments is considered rude unlike in USA. I still come from a "western" culture (France).
" LONG LIVE INDIVIDUALISM AND WESTERN CULTURE. "
there is not such a thing as a unique "western culture". If it does it has nothing to see with the consumeristic individualistic USA-kind of society (considered by some to be the "modern society").
The western world did existed with other values much longer time before the birth of the individualistic "modern" society... Come to Our old Europe if you want to see what "western" really means.
It is not what the Chinese do. But the USA yes. They even do war to impose their culture, companies and "values" (values that generally are limited to the liberty for economic domination of US based companies in the rest of the world)
" I prefer the western culture that emphasizes and put a high value on personal accomplishments. "
this might be more true in Protestant-based cultures. In catholic-based cultures the ideal of social and collective accomplishments is traditionally stronger than the individualistic visions from US and northern European cultures (until the "americanisation" of the society in the 60's). In my country it is traditionally more valuated to work for the others than to work for yourself only, being showing your individualistic economic accomplishments is considered rude unlike in USA. I still come from a "western" culture (France).
" LONG LIVE INDIVIDUALISM AND WESTERN CULTURE. "
there is not such a thing as a unique "western culture". If it does it has nothing to see with the consumeristic individualistic USA-kind of society (considered by some to be the "modern society").
The western world did existed with other values much longer time before the birth of the individualistic "modern" society... Come to Our old Europe if you want to see what "western" really means.
>>>Freedom Lover Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:50 am GMT
Chinese culture is a threat to individual liberty and privacy. They detest those who go their own way. <<<
Hhahah, to whose eyes? You surely mean those bottomlessly selfish westerners?
>>All what's in their mind is to take over the entire world, impose their culture, and eventually enslave other people once their culture is imposed on non-chinese. <<<
China is still such a green hand in committing such horrendous West-pioneered crimes!
But of course we Chinese are always ready to learn from the West, especially its lessons, to do a better job!
>>I prefer the western culture that emphasizes and put a high value on personal accomplishments. <<<
Anyway, it is yr own personal choice!
>>The oriental cultures of Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans frown individualism and they tend to prefer group accomplishment instead. If you assert your individuality in the midst of their society, then you're nowhere to go, so if I where you, I look for another society.
LONG LIVE INDIVIDUALISM AND WESTERN CULTURE. <<
Yr warped understanding of individualism and collectivism by putting them in contradictory positions has blinded your visions!
Chinese civilization never needs to shout to the world LONG LIVE CHINESE CIVILIZATION, yet it has lived long and goes strong!
The West has to withstand the Chinese crucible! LOL
Chinese culture is a threat to individual liberty and privacy. They detest those who go their own way. <<<
Hhahah, to whose eyes? You surely mean those bottomlessly selfish westerners?
>>All what's in their mind is to take over the entire world, impose their culture, and eventually enslave other people once their culture is imposed on non-chinese. <<<
China is still such a green hand in committing such horrendous West-pioneered crimes!
But of course we Chinese are always ready to learn from the West, especially its lessons, to do a better job!
>>I prefer the western culture that emphasizes and put a high value on personal accomplishments. <<<
Anyway, it is yr own personal choice!
>>The oriental cultures of Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans frown individualism and they tend to prefer group accomplishment instead. If you assert your individuality in the midst of their society, then you're nowhere to go, so if I where you, I look for another society.
LONG LIVE INDIVIDUALISM AND WESTERN CULTURE. <<
Yr warped understanding of individualism and collectivism by putting them in contradictory positions has blinded your visions!
Chinese civilization never needs to shout to the world LONG LIVE CHINESE CIVILIZATION, yet it has lived long and goes strong!
The West has to withstand the Chinese crucible! LOL
<< this might be more true in Protestant-based cultures. In catholic-based cultures the ideal of social and collective accomplishments is traditionally stronger than the individualistic visions from US and northern European cultures (until the "americanisation" of the society in the 60's). In my country it is traditionally more valuated to work for the others than to work for yourself only, being showing your individualistic economic accomplishments is considered rude unlike in USA. I still come from a "western" culture (France). >>
I don't believe that you're from France. You're form oriental society. So don't make a fool out of me.
The French are known to be individualistic when it comes to personal choices and preferences but conformist when it comes to their language and culture.
I don't believe that you're from France. You're form oriental society. So don't make a fool out of me.
The French are known to be individualistic when it comes to personal choices and preferences but conformist when it comes to their language and culture.
In Chinese and Indian cultures, you cannot choose the person whom you want to marry but the parents are the ones who dictate whom to marry. They do all the set up and the child cannot refuse because as an "obedient child", he/she has to follow his/her parents will even if he/she does not love the person being matched up to him.
If you're in a Chinese society, it's a taboo to see anybody eating or going to places alone. It's scratch my back and I'll scratch ypurs too.
I can't live in a society like that.
If you're in a Chinese society, it's a taboo to see anybody eating or going to places alone. It's scratch my back and I'll scratch ypurs too.
I can't live in a society like that.
<<this might be more true in Protestant-based cultures. >>
France is an irreligious country anyway, more so than its neighboring countries (not adding to it the high muslim percentage). Also, protestant cultures are known for their tradition debating subjects, but also for their conformism.
Whenever you see the architecture in the Netherlands, Northern Germany, the United Kingdom you'll notice little variation. Standing out is also very much frowned upon (especially among the older generation), which makes people from these cultures jealous at French people at times.
I can recommend the film "Babettes gæstebud" which is about two strict Lutheran sisters in Denmark in the 1870s who shelter a Parisian refugee from counter-revolutionary bloodshed and accept her as a housekeep. In the end of the film she prepares a "French meal" for the two sisters and a few other invited guests, first astonishing them for the high overall richness of the banquet, which was very much taboo in protestant culture.
France is an irreligious country anyway, more so than its neighboring countries (not adding to it the high muslim percentage). Also, protestant cultures are known for their tradition debating subjects, but also for their conformism.
Whenever you see the architecture in the Netherlands, Northern Germany, the United Kingdom you'll notice little variation. Standing out is also very much frowned upon (especially among the older generation), which makes people from these cultures jealous at French people at times.
I can recommend the film "Babettes gæstebud" which is about two strict Lutheran sisters in Denmark in the 1870s who shelter a Parisian refugee from counter-revolutionary bloodshed and accept her as a housekeep. In the end of the film she prepares a "French meal" for the two sisters and a few other invited guests, first astonishing them for the high overall richness of the banquet, which was very much taboo in protestant culture.
<< Whenever you see the architecture in the Netherlands, Northern Germany, the United Kingdom you'll notice little variation. Standing out is also very much frowned upon (especially among the older generation), which makes people from these cultures jealous at French people at times. >>
-- It's more intricate than that. From the 16th century second half to the mid-18th century there was a clear divide in Europe:
. Protestant Europe was indeed poorly creative in arts and favoured repetitive architecture, but allowed more freedom of thought and a lot more scientific output [*],
. in Catholic (Habsburgian) Europe baroque art and architecture were flourishing with extreme originality but intellectual freedom was drastically reduced. Catholic Counter-Reform was an intellectual disaster for Italy, Spain and Flanders, arguably Europe's most brilliant nations in early Renaissance times.
The French case isn't that easy to pigeonhole. During the first half of the 17th century the country almost acts as a Protestant nation, with conformistic architecture (the Louis XIII style absolutely ignores the Baroque wave), political and military success and a brilliant literary and philosophic output. On the other hand the end of Louis XIV era is a deliberate attempt to mediterranize France (Spanish alliance, anti-Protestant persecutions), which ended up in a string of disasters. The Revolution of 1789 was actually the revenge of secular Protestants.
[*] Religious freedom was back then a prerequisite to scientific breakthroughs. Both Isaac Newton and Blaise Pascal indulged in theological thoughts of their own, which was sort of a training to innovative discoveries in the field of science.
-- It's more intricate than that. From the 16th century second half to the mid-18th century there was a clear divide in Europe:
. Protestant Europe was indeed poorly creative in arts and favoured repetitive architecture, but allowed more freedom of thought and a lot more scientific output [*],
. in Catholic (Habsburgian) Europe baroque art and architecture were flourishing with extreme originality but intellectual freedom was drastically reduced. Catholic Counter-Reform was an intellectual disaster for Italy, Spain and Flanders, arguably Europe's most brilliant nations in early Renaissance times.
The French case isn't that easy to pigeonhole. During the first half of the 17th century the country almost acts as a Protestant nation, with conformistic architecture (the Louis XIII style absolutely ignores the Baroque wave), political and military success and a brilliant literary and philosophic output. On the other hand the end of Louis XIV era is a deliberate attempt to mediterranize France (Spanish alliance, anti-Protestant persecutions), which ended up in a string of disasters. The Revolution of 1789 was actually the revenge of secular Protestants.
[*] Religious freedom was back then a prerequisite to scientific breakthroughs. Both Isaac Newton and Blaise Pascal indulged in theological thoughts of their own, which was sort of a training to innovative discoveries in the field of science.
<< >>>Freedom Lover Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:50 am GMT
Chinese culture is a threat to individual liberty and privacy. They detest those who go their own way. <<<
Hhahah, to whose eyes? You surely mean those bottomlessly selfish westerners?
>>All what's in their mind is to take over the entire world, impose their culture, and eventually enslave other people once their culture is imposed on non-chinese. <<<
China is still such a green hand in committing such horrendous West-pioneered crimes!
But of course we Chinese are always ready to learn from the West, especially its lessons, to do a better job!
>>I prefer the western culture that emphasizes and put a high value on personal accomplishments. <<<
Anyway, it is yr own personal choice!
>>The oriental cultures of Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans frown individualism and they tend to prefer group accomplishment instead. If you assert your individuality in the midst of their society, then you're nowhere to go, so if I where you, I look for another society.
LONG LIVE INDIVIDUALISM AND WESTERN CULTURE. <<
Yr warped understanding of individualism and collectivism by putting them in contradictory positions has blinded your visions!
Chinese civilization never needs to shout to the world LONG LIVE CHINESE CIVILIZATION, yet it has lived long and goes strong!
The West has to withstand the Chinese crucible! LOL >>
Don't get me wrong but when I say I'm individualistic it does not mean that I don't care for others. Of course I do and I do it not just for compassion but with love. Unlike the communal people who would only help if the person who asks help belong to their group, if there is something good that he can get from him in return for the help, or there's an approval of other member of the group to help the person because he cannot decide on his own as an individual because the group might ostracize him.
One famous Chinese suppression of liberty is what I saw on television about the parents forcing their children to wear iron shoes so that they could not wander too far from their home and marry someone from outside the village. That's a great child abuse.
Another one is if a wife gives birth to a daughter, it's considered bad luck. They don't think that their mothers are daughters too and without those daughters how could the Chinese multiply if all offsprings are just sons? How could they have sons if there are no daughters to marry?
Last I'm not blinded by my views about individualism. It's you who;s blinded by loving the Chinese communal way of thinking above anything else.
Chinese culture is a threat to individual liberty and privacy. They detest those who go their own way. <<<
Hhahah, to whose eyes? You surely mean those bottomlessly selfish westerners?
>>All what's in their mind is to take over the entire world, impose their culture, and eventually enslave other people once their culture is imposed on non-chinese. <<<
China is still such a green hand in committing such horrendous West-pioneered crimes!
But of course we Chinese are always ready to learn from the West, especially its lessons, to do a better job!
>>I prefer the western culture that emphasizes and put a high value on personal accomplishments. <<<
Anyway, it is yr own personal choice!
>>The oriental cultures of Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans frown individualism and they tend to prefer group accomplishment instead. If you assert your individuality in the midst of their society, then you're nowhere to go, so if I where you, I look for another society.
LONG LIVE INDIVIDUALISM AND WESTERN CULTURE. <<
Yr warped understanding of individualism and collectivism by putting them in contradictory positions has blinded your visions!
Chinese civilization never needs to shout to the world LONG LIVE CHINESE CIVILIZATION, yet it has lived long and goes strong!
The West has to withstand the Chinese crucible! LOL >>
Don't get me wrong but when I say I'm individualistic it does not mean that I don't care for others. Of course I do and I do it not just for compassion but with love. Unlike the communal people who would only help if the person who asks help belong to their group, if there is something good that he can get from him in return for the help, or there's an approval of other member of the group to help the person because he cannot decide on his own as an individual because the group might ostracize him.
One famous Chinese suppression of liberty is what I saw on television about the parents forcing their children to wear iron shoes so that they could not wander too far from their home and marry someone from outside the village. That's a great child abuse.
Another one is if a wife gives birth to a daughter, it's considered bad luck. They don't think that their mothers are daughters too and without those daughters how could the Chinese multiply if all offsprings are just sons? How could they have sons if there are no daughters to marry?
Last I'm not blinded by my views about individualism. It's you who;s blinded by loving the Chinese communal way of thinking above anything else.
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