English is a Dutch dialect
Is "Dutch" 16 different languages?
<<English is a Dutch dialect >>
It makes sense.
English= Anglian+Saxon+Jutish+Frisian+Norse+Norman French
Dutch= Low Frankish+Frisian+Saxon
It makes sense.
English= Anglian+Saxon+Jutish+Frisian+Norse+Norman French
Dutch= Low Frankish+Frisian+Saxon
Don't listen to him. He's probably just a spammer like half the people on this web site, sadly.
He's just classifying lects as languages as accurately as possible. Yes, the dialect continuum makes that hard to do because it's all relative to where a speaker is from (there are no exact borders, unless they've been broken in the past, which they often have in the Low Lands), and most speak Standard Dutch and/or a mixed form which is a dialect and intelligible.
It's just an objective analysis about natural languages of a dialect continuum, standard languages, natiolects, etc... You can do it with even the most centralized language once an unintelligible variant appears.
It has no political meaning whatsoever. It can also be done with centralized languages like Greek, French or Russian, when you considered their slangs. The existence of these newly formed slangs doesn't make the language break up all of sudden, it's just a register people speak in certain circles.
It's just an objective analysis about natural languages of a dialect continuum, standard languages, natiolects, etc... You can do it with even the most centralized language once an unintelligible variant appears.
It has no political meaning whatsoever. It can also be done with centralized languages like Greek, French or Russian, when you considered their slangs. The existence of these newly formed slangs doesn't make the language break up all of sudden, it's just a register people speak in certain circles.
<<Banana>>
Mind your own d@mn business
You're the only one nobody listens to
Jealous.
Mind your own d@mn business
You're the only one nobody listens to
Jealous.
I think you are right, Baldewin. It's just pure science, really. I don't think there's any politics behind it.
He also went to work on Chinese, turning it from 14 languages into 343 languages (!!!)
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2008/12/27/a-reworking-of-chinese-language-classification/
Occitan from 5 languages to 12 languages:
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2009/05/24/a-reclassification-of-the-occitan-language/
Catalan from 1 language into 3 languages:
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2009/05/25/a-look-at-the-catalan-language/
He also lumps too. I noticed in that Dutch piece that he lumped a bunch of Low Saxon dialects that Ethnologue had said were separate languages into much fewer languages, based once again on intelligibility. That's the way it ought to be done. You shouldn't just split, you should lump too. Split when they can't understand each other, lump when they can. It all makes sense.
I agree with you that it doesn't make the language break up of all sudden. On the contrary, he seems to be saying that some kind of thing like a "Macro-Dutch" is actually all these different languages and dialects. So he's making Dutch into a sort of macrolanguage, bigger than it seems. Instead of making the language explode, it could be seen as making it into some huge macrolanguage.
I don't know about Russian, but for sure Greek is more than one language, and French is WAAAAYYY more than one language. I don't even want to think about how many langues d'oil there are.
He also went to work on Chinese, turning it from 14 languages into 343 languages (!!!)
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2008/12/27/a-reworking-of-chinese-language-classification/
Occitan from 5 languages to 12 languages:
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2009/05/24/a-reclassification-of-the-occitan-language/
Catalan from 1 language into 3 languages:
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2009/05/25/a-look-at-the-catalan-language/
He also lumps too. I noticed in that Dutch piece that he lumped a bunch of Low Saxon dialects that Ethnologue had said were separate languages into much fewer languages, based once again on intelligibility. That's the way it ought to be done. You shouldn't just split, you should lump too. Split when they can't understand each other, lump when they can. It all makes sense.
I agree with you that it doesn't make the language break up of all sudden. On the contrary, he seems to be saying that some kind of thing like a "Macro-Dutch" is actually all these different languages and dialects. So he's making Dutch into a sort of macrolanguage, bigger than it seems. Instead of making the language explode, it could be seen as making it into some huge macrolanguage.
I don't know about Russian, but for sure Greek is more than one language, and French is WAAAAYYY more than one language. I don't even want to think about how many langues d'oil there are.
<<He also went to work on Chinese, turning it from 14 languages into 343 languages (!!!)
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2008/12/27/a-reworking-of-chinese-language-classification/
Occitan from 5 languages to 12 languages:
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2009/05/24/a-reclassification-of-the-occitan-language/
Catalan from 1 language into 3 languages:
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2009/05/25/a-look-at-the-catalan-language/ >>
That blog belongs to an American communist (rara avis) and mixes a lot politics with languages imo.
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2008/12/27/a-reworking-of-chinese-language-classification/
Occitan from 5 languages to 12 languages:
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2009/05/24/a-reclassification-of-the-occitan-language/
Catalan from 1 language into 3 languages:
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2009/05/25/a-look-at-the-catalan-language/ >>
That blog belongs to an American communist (rara avis) and mixes a lot politics with languages imo.
<<I don't know about Russian, but for sure Greek is more than one language, and French is WAAAAYYY more than one language. I don't even want to think about how many langues d'oil there are.>>
Yes, but they're hardly spoken anymore, these separate oïl-languages and serve more as museum pieces than anything else (even though old people and some activists still speak them). About Greek, I'm not sure, but I think standard language is used everywhere, but there are still dialects I guess (excluding the Pontics, who surely speak a different language).
The oïl-languages indeed are, well, languages that can be split into even more languages (the more Germanic East-Walloon for example is not the same like more Latin West-Walloon or Picardo-Walloon).
French itself also has its dialects that are mostly intelligible (exceptions like hardcore Quebec French, hardcore Cajun French, hardcore Southern French, can be seen as different language of they don't switch code). It also has of course argots that aren't intelligible for outsiders.
Russian is said to barely have dialect, due to dialect leveling, but new dialects are evolving and linguists are defining them. You also have unintelligible sociolects and slangs. Also some ethnic groups might speak a different Russian. Still, I don't have first-hand knowledge about Russian.
Yes, but they're hardly spoken anymore, these separate oïl-languages and serve more as museum pieces than anything else (even though old people and some activists still speak them). About Greek, I'm not sure, but I think standard language is used everywhere, but there are still dialects I guess (excluding the Pontics, who surely speak a different language).
The oïl-languages indeed are, well, languages that can be split into even more languages (the more Germanic East-Walloon for example is not the same like more Latin West-Walloon or Picardo-Walloon).
French itself also has its dialects that are mostly intelligible (exceptions like hardcore Quebec French, hardcore Cajun French, hardcore Southern French, can be seen as different language of they don't switch code). It also has of course argots that aren't intelligible for outsiders.
Russian is said to barely have dialect, due to dialect leveling, but new dialects are evolving and linguists are defining them. You also have unintelligible sociolects and slangs. Also some ethnic groups might speak a different Russian. Still, I don't have first-hand knowledge about Russian.
Communist or not. Subjective or not. He is surely not a newbie on the domain of linguistics.
He has a Masters in Linguistics, right? Doesn't that make you a linguist? At what point is someone a linguist, anyway?
I'd like to see him take on "Italian." No way are all those Italian "dialects" really dialects. A lot of them are separate languages, right?
Pontic is a separate language for sure. And Tsakonian. And don't they speak some weird Greek in Italy? What about the Greek on Cyprus? Isn't it sort of weird?
I'd like to see him take on "Italian." No way are all those Italian "dialects" really dialects. A lot of them are separate languages, right?
Pontic is a separate language for sure. And Tsakonian. And don't they speak some weird Greek in Italy? What about the Greek on Cyprus? Isn't it sort of weird?
Жуки любят безлюдные места. Они бродят по полу и ничего не думают, потому что они глупые.